Ming watches blames consumers

Asian Made & Swiss Asian watches
User avatar
koimaster
Founder
Posts: 46158
Joined: December 16th 2009, 11:00pm
Location: Oregon, Thanks for visiting! Now go back home!
Contact:

Ming watches blames consumers

Post by koimaster » December 19th 2020, 10:54am

So this micro-brand called Ming ("a horological collective formed and fully funded by six enthusiasts from around the world") apparently has so many unhappy customers, that it caused their customer service rep to leave the company. Ming spun it to blame the customers as you can in this screenshot

Image
Image

1946-2006

“Your heart was warm and happy

With the lilt of Irish laughter

Every day and in every way

Now forever and ever after."
iwasbanned
Master of Time
Posts: 6676
Joined: July 13th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by iwasbanned » December 19th 2020, 2:26pm

It isn't unhappy customers, if they were able to get watches, they'd be happy. It's those that want a watch but can't get one cause they sell out fast. These are the abusive wannabe customers. I understand their frustrations, but man the fuck up. It's a watch, no need to act like a little bitch cause you slept in and couldn't buy one.
TemerityB
Troll
Posts: 17978
Joined: June 12th 2010, 10:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by TemerityB » December 19th 2020, 5:32pm

I need a little more back story here. I know Ming makes small batches of good watches, they're so sharp and the media is gaga about them - I once looked at their website and they had no models to sell. That kind of thing I'll never understand. But, again, I'll reserve any comment until I learn more.
"Funny how things that start spontaneously end that way. Eat a peach." - Neil Young
User avatar
svaglic
Master of Time
Posts: 5612
Joined: November 30th 2010, 11:00pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by svaglic » February 9th 2022, 6:56am

An article written about a customer who had an issue with his Ming watch and how it was handled rubbed some the wrong way.

https://screwdowncrown.com/2021/08/04/m ... r-service/

After reading this, I’m not sure I would get a new Ming, probably a used one where I could study the pictures of an actual watch I would be getting. I don’t know though, used is more expensive than new so it would be a tough call. I wouldn’t want to be blackballed from ever getting one new, but if something is wrong and you complain it could happen.
In memory of TB/Phfluff, since he isn’t here to continue to give his praise, I will share it for him.
Image
User avatar
codguy
ASSHAT
Posts: 9986
Joined: June 9th 2011, 10:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by codguy » February 9th 2022, 8:58am

I have no dog in this fight and love the looks of the two iwb own/owned !!

That said, one word on Superluminova............ omega.
But in fairness, perhaps the greek letter watch company does not use liquid SLN (a combination of luminous pigment solids suspended in a binder :mrgreen: ) in/on their watch models.

Side note; Ming makes small quantities of watches and sells them out before they are even ready to ship. IMO, they must think they have the wis by the balls (supply/demand thing) since blackballing afew "collectors" will not change anything one iota for the company....... that is until they get a little bad press.

If Ming gets bent over this post, I will gladly give them my info to be put on their banned list.
And I still have no dog in this fight.
.




Image


.
User avatar
3Flushes
ASSHAT & Master of Time
Posts: 11424
Joined: November 25th 2012, 11:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by 3Flushes » February 10th 2022, 3:22am

svaglic wrote:
February 9th 2022, 6:56am
An article written about a customer who had an issue with his Ming watch and how it was handled rubbed some the wrong way...

https://screwdowncrown.com/2021/08/04/m ... r-service/
Purely arrogant on the part of both parties.

Had I been the buyer, I would have reached out to the company before sticking it up their rear ends on social media, but given Ming's response, the result seems likely to have been the same.

If that lack of uniformity on the handset is within spec, what other defects might be within Ming's tolerances? Fortunately, the laws of physics apparently don't apply the watches that I own with Super-LumiNova.
^^^Copyright ©️ 2023 3flushes Media.^^^
iwasbanned
Master of Time
Posts: 6676
Joined: July 13th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by iwasbanned » February 10th 2022, 9:51am

I love the Ming watches I've owned. Definitely different from anything out there. I do think though that they are watering down their design language by coming out with so many models. Same issue I have with Grand Seiko. Regardless, I have owned a couple both top notch quality. I do think though that because they release so many small batches of limited editions that if systemic problems arise in a batch, it's hard for them to address. Personally I think they had a systemic issue with the lume on the divers. I have the same diver and noticed the irregularity on the lume myself but it wasn't enough for me to follow up on it. You can see it on the lume picture below. Anyway, I suspect they didn't have a lot of hands if any on hand to replace the uneven ones. To Ming's credit, they did offer a guy a full refund, what more can you ask for. You aren't happy with the product, here's your money back. I don't think companies owe you more than that. With a small start up like Ming which relies on word of mouth and social media to spread the word, bad reviews aren't a good thing and they have to protect their reputation. They have every right to refuse service to a customer they perceive may harbor ill will now or in the future.

Image
Image
Image
User avatar
3Flushes
ASSHAT & Master of Time
Posts: 11424
Joined: November 25th 2012, 11:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by 3Flushes » February 11th 2022, 9:58pm

iwasbanned wrote:
February 10th 2022, 9:51am
I love the Ming watches I've owned. Definitely different from anything out there. I do think though that they are watering down their design language by coming out with so many models. Same issue I have with Grand Seiko. Regardless, I have owned a couple both top notch quality. I do think though that because they release so many small batches of limited editions that if systemic problems arise in a batch, it's hard for them to address. Personally I think they had a systemic issue with the lume on the divers. I have the same diver and noticed the irregularity on the lume myself but it wasn't enough for me to follow up on it. You can see it on the lume picture below. Anyway, I suspect they didn't have a lot of hands if any on hand to replace the uneven ones. To Ming's credit, they did offer a guy a full refund, what more can you ask for. You aren't happy with the product, here's your money back. I don't think companies owe you more than that. With a small start up like Ming which relies on word of mouth and social media to spread the word, bad reviews aren't a good thing and they have to protect their reputation. They have every right to refuse service to a customer they perceive may harbor ill will now or in the future...
Bad reviews aren't a good thing, but handling them well bolsters, especially a fledgling company's, reputation for aspiring to excellence, customer satisfaction, and outstanding customer service, and turns the situation into a good thing.

Given Ming's PR/CS manager left the company amidst a number of issues and frustration with a hostile segment of the Ming buying public is telling. And given the defensive way the pain in the ass in the OP got dealt with by the powers that be who assumed the task, suggests that PR and CS are evidently not their fields.

The customer was clearly out to make Ming look bad by posting before contacting CS to try to resolve the issue which should have dictated taking a narrow CS course from the git go. Having responded proper, if the pain in the ass stirred the pot regardless, Ming missed the opportunity to have controlled the narrative to their advantage.

IMO Ming should have responded by offering a refund without the explanation, conditions of inspection, and whatnot, period. The customer took issue with something Ming knew they had an issue with. Not happy? We'll gladly give you a refund. If you decide that's what you want to do, send the watch back and we will issue you a refund forthwith given the non-abused, unsized, etc. condition of the watch. Ming could then offer the watch at a slight discount as NRS - new returned stock, that is, fully inspected and guaranteed.

Instead, they made excuses for a QC issue, left their commitment to quality and CS open to question, and put themselves in the position to be perceived as snobs - something they don't currently have the following or the heritage to be able to afford to do. Again, Ming missed the opportunity to be able to put a positive spin on the situation by doing business with the pain in the ass again. And you're right, Ming has the right to refuse to do business with someone, but in this case, they would have been better served by the strategic discretion not to exercise it. They're building a brand, not a cult.

I don't know what Ming manufactures in-house and what they source, but if the hand sets came in with the issue, they should have been rejected out of hand, so to speak. If Ming applied the lume and they turned out poorly, the watches should not have been released. While this may have had some financial and delivery implications, ultimately delivering the product is what counts.

And instead of being cornered into taking the position that a defect was within their QC standards, Ming could have bolstered their reputation by specifying the delay was due to the hands not meeting their high standards and were therefore being replaced. The cost of doing so would likely have been considerably less than the damage done to their brand by the bungled way Ming handled the situation.
^^^Copyright ©️ 2023 3flushes Media.^^^
iwasbanned
Master of Time
Posts: 6676
Joined: July 13th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by iwasbanned » February 11th 2022, 10:11pm

3Flushes wrote:
February 11th 2022, 9:58pm
Given Ming's PR/CS manager left the company amidst a number of issues and frustration with a hostile segment of the Ming buying public is telling.
I don't disagree that they could have given more on their end. Would it have helped, I don't know, sometimes an unhappy customer stays that way and continues their crusade. And they did offer a full refund.

As for why their pr/cs manager left, it had nothing to do with issues. It had to do solely with assholes unhappy that they couldn't buy the Ming watch they wanted that sold out. Ming has changed the way they make sales to try to satisfy these folks, but no matter what, someone ends up not getting to order and then they go get their axe to grind. These folks shit on Ming every chance they get. Same thing is happening with those that can't get their favorite Rolex. They become jilted lovers who can't move the fuck on.
User avatar
jason_recliner
ASSHAT
Posts: 10787
Joined: September 17th 2011, 10:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by jason_recliner » February 11th 2022, 10:12pm

iwasbanned wrote:
February 10th 2022, 9:51am
To Ming's credit, they did offer a guy a full refund, what more can you ask for. You aren't happy with the product, here's your money back.
That's a really good point. They provided a product, it didn't work out, they offered the guy his money back. They can't do more than that, and wanting more than that the customer is being an arsehole IMO.
Copyright Reclinervision 2020 Productions. All rights reserved.

If it thinks, it stinks
User avatar
3Flushes
ASSHAT & Master of Time
Posts: 11424
Joined: November 25th 2012, 11:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by 3Flushes » February 12th 2022, 4:25am

From Svaglic's link:
The summary

Gavin bought a watch, and was unhappy with the unevenness of the lume on the hands of the watch – he reached out to Ming, and they explained this was normal, and within their standards. He disagreed, and they offered to take the watch back for inspection, but warned him that if they deemed it to be acceptable, they would not send it back, but refund him instead (and keep the watch). He sent it in, and they refunded him after inspecting it, stating that they believe it was acceptable. It is unclear why he didn’t get the option to take it back, as I think that would not be unreasonable… but that’s what happened. During the time between him receiving it, and them inspecting it, he posted some stuff on his Instagram about the lume not being perfect, and hoping they would sort it out – this is the key fact.
After re-reading this segment, I believe the writer meant: "During the time between Ming receiving it..."

So the customer posted before Ming received the watch and a determination was made, but Ming had apparently given him an ultimatum that they would not return the watch once sent for examination regardless of their findings, and would only refund his money. Why not just say, send it in and we'll send you a refund? Then, they went on to stand behind an obvious defect before refunding the guy his money per their admonition, from which he lost 460 SGD on the exchange rate. And then, they kicked the guy out of the Ming buyers club to boot. A classic cautionary tale of how not to deal with a pain in the ass of a customer.

The link has a good chronological rundown of what occurred and quotes from the posts of both sides - they blew it by adding fuel to a fire that could have been quickly put out to their advantage. The issue has really blown up in their faces to add to their growing pains - the more watches they produce to try to get ahead and meet demand, the behinder they get, and as IWB noted, dilute their designs in the process with so many releases.

Tough spot, indeed. Ming's watches are very cool and I suspect they will figure things out, but they could make the road to building their brand much smoother if they stop shooting themselves in their PR/CS foot. Perhaps they can replace ol' Sandra with a professional who has a temperament more suited too coping with the public and let the principals get back to strategizing their growth, and designing and manufacturing watches.
^^^Copyright ©️ 2023 3flushes Media.^^^
User avatar
jason_recliner
ASSHAT
Posts: 10787
Joined: September 17th 2011, 10:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by jason_recliner » February 13th 2022, 10:53pm

3Flushes wrote:
February 12th 2022, 4:25am
Perhaps they can replace ol' Sandra with a professional who has a temperament more suited too coping with the public and let the principals get back to strategizing their growth, and designing and manufacturing watches.
What's Rebecca up to these days?
Copyright Reclinervision 2020 Productions. All rights reserved.

If it thinks, it stinks
User avatar
3Flushes
ASSHAT & Master of Time
Posts: 11424
Joined: November 25th 2012, 11:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by 3Flushes » February 14th 2022, 4:53pm

jason_recliner wrote:
February 13th 2022, 10:53pm
3Flushes wrote:
February 12th 2022, 4:25am
Perhaps they can replace ol' Sandra with a professional who has a temperament more suited too coping with the public and let the principals get back to strategizing their growth, and designing and manufacturing watches.
What's Rebecca up to these days?
I don't know - perhaps she's become part of the service department on the company yacht, but what a great idea. She's had a good deal of experience mitigating hostile customers and lots of experience with hands issues which Ming has apparently had its fair share of systemic issues with........

Unbelievable to be writing a third time about the Ming x Massena collaboration – but here we are.

https://screwdowncrown.com/2021/08/07/j ... -industry/

The above references a model that was released with misaligned hands - a Ming Massena Labs collaboration - there is a link to a thread regarding the issue. The above link largely references Massena's tactics in dealing with watch journalists that reflect his manner of dealing with detractors at TZ, and It is a pretty good piece about watch journalism, generally speaking

Massena also hassled customers with hostile PM's and would only honor the warranty to original purchasers. After blaming shippers for the issue and following several awkward statements, Ming resolved the issue- the watches were fixed, the warranty was extended by one year and a free Rousseau strap of the customer's choice, about a $275 item, was given to those whose delivery of the watch was delayed by the issue.

There was apparently a GMT watch that also had a misalignment issue with the independent hour hand due to an adjustment problem with the modified Selita movements that were used. Details are sketchy as it seems that the issues with two watches have become somewhat run together.

It does seem highly incumbent on Ming to tighten up on QC and CS, with the elimination of systemic production issues and outstanding customer service being the mission. In the interim, straightening out watches that have defects before releasing them and eliminating the quagmire of PR issues and damage to their reputation which follows the release of defective merch is vital - especially if Ming intends, as they've stated, to eventually enter the top tier market.
^^^Copyright ©️ 2023 3flushes Media.^^^
User avatar
3Flushes
ASSHAT & Master of Time
Posts: 11424
Joined: November 25th 2012, 11:00pm
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by 3Flushes » February 15th 2022, 1:47am

3Flushes wrote:
February 14th 2022, 4:53pm
jason_recliner wrote:
February 13th 2022, 10:53pm
3Flushes wrote:
February 12th 2022, 4:25am
Perhaps they can replace ol' Sandra with a professional who has a temperament more suited too coping with the public and let the principals get back to strategizing their growth, and designing and manufacturing watches.
What's Rebecca up to these days?
I don't know - perhaps she's become part of the service department on the company yacht, but what a great idea. She's had a good deal of experience mitigating hostile customers and lots of experience with hands issues which Ming has apparently had its fair share of systemic issues with........

Unbelievable to be writing a third time about the Ming x Massena collaboration – but here we are.

https://screwdowncrown.com/2021/08/07/j ... -industry/

The above references a model that was released with misaligned hands - a Ming Massena Labs collaboration - there is a link to a thread regarding the issue. The above link largely references Massena's tactics in dealing with watch journalists that reflect his manner of dealing with detractors at TZ, and It is a pretty good piece about watch journalism, generally speaking

Massena also hassled customers with hostile PM's and would only honor the warranty to original purchasers. After blaming shippers for the issue and following several awkward statements, Ming resolved the issue- the watches were fixed, the warranty was extended by one year and a free Rousseau strap of the customer's choice, about a $275 item, was given to those whose delivery of the watch was delayed by the issue.

There was apparently a GMT watch that also had a misalignment issue with the independent hour hand due to an adjustment problem with the modified Selita movements that were used. Details are sketchy as it seems that the issues with two watches have become somewhat run together.

It does seem highly incumbent on Ming to tighten up on QC and CS, with the elimination of systemic production issues and outstanding customer service being the mission. In the interim, straightening out watches that have defects before releasing them and eliminating the quagmire of PR issues and damage to their reputation which follows the release of defective merch is vital - especially if Ming intends, as they've stated, to eventually enter the top tier market.

Edited for clarity and shit
^^^Copyright ©️ 2023 3flushes Media.^^^
iwasbanned
Master of Time
Posts: 6676
Joined: July 13th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Ming watches blames consumers

Post by iwasbanned » March 17th 2022, 7:51am

boscoe wrote:
March 17th 2022, 6:27am
As Flash Gordon knows, Ming is merciless - and a flash in the pan. Meh. One of their designs is a direct Montblanc sports watch knockoff.
which montblanc?

I just bought this one :). Got a long wait for it.
Screenshot 2022-03-17 094828.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Post Reply

Return to “Asian and Far East Watches”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest