Bathurst 2022

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Bathurst 2022

Post by jason_recliner » October 8th 2022, 11:18pm

The "Great Race" is on this weekend. It's amazing to me how much car racing in general, and this race in particular, has lost relevance. For the uninitiated, Bathurst is a race that has almost always been about Holden vs Ford - brands that produced the most popular cars in Australia for several decades. They stopped manufacturing in 2017 (I think) and Holden ceased to exist as a brand in 2021 (I think). This is the last season that Holden-branded cars will race.

I grew up in Adelaide, where Holdens were produced. A mate worked there and a couple of mates owned Holdens. Most years we'd go to their homes, drink beers, smoke cones, and watch the "Great Race". The beers and cones made watching cars driving round in circles interesting!

It's a stark contrast to Bathurst 2022. Fords are still popular here - Ranger utes. You can't buy a Holden. Mainstream Aussie culture has changed so much. People don't want to spend their limited free time watching cars driving around, they want to watch sport. Or play sport. And everybody plays sport (or at least goes to the gym).

I live in a fairly working class suburb (although gentrifying). I popped down to my favourite bar because I was hoping to see some of the race on their 300" screen. They are playing influencers cliff diving in Cyprus or something. I didn't ask the owner to put the race on as I would be embarrassed. So I went to the 'bogan bistro', as one of the waitresses once described it to me. Still not showing - I asked the managed to put it on for me.

Apart from the fact that car racing is almost completely unrelatable (unless you are rich and drive racing cars in your spare time) I can see why nobody wants to watch this any more. The Laver Cup is showing on the next screen and there's more action in one point than in 15 minutes of Bathurst. And there are ZERO displays of superhuman fitness, endurance, strength, or skill in 12 hours of Bathurst. Too bad I don't smoke joints any more...

Is televised car racing dying? I think so.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by Nuvolari » October 9th 2022, 12:52am

Yeah…. Too many series and classes within series all vying for the attention of a shrinking audience.

They sold Holdens here for a little while under the Pontiac moniker. The GTO and the G8 did reasonably well for a but never hit their optimistic sales projections.

A complete bummer they would scuttle the whole operation but GM has not a reputation of wise decisions.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by conjurer » October 9th 2022, 8:55am

I could bring up the astounding popularity of NASCAR here in the States, but I would, of course, veer off with stupid jokes about it (since to me it's like watching paint dry), and probably annoy some of our membership. So, for once, I'll keep my fucking mouth shut.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by DoctorIvey » October 9th 2022, 11:09am

Car racing, like bicycle racing, does not make for good spectator sport for the uninitiated. Much of the drama is subtle and easily missed, and much of the impressive exhibition of skill is lost on a screen. Still, the same could be said about pitching a baseball or hitting a golf ball.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by Nuvolari » October 9th 2022, 9:46pm

conjurer wrote:
October 9th 2022, 8:55am
I could bring up the astounding popularity of NASCAR here in the States, but I would, of course, veer off with stupid jokes about it (since to me it's like watching paint dry), and probably annoy some of our membership. So, for once, I'll keep my fucking mouth shut.
NASCAR really began to flourish when open-wheeled racing organized under CART (Championship Auto Racing Teams) fractured into another - initially lower-cost version of the same thing - but where you could use LAST year’s chassis. It was called the Indy Racing League or IRL, and initially it sucked. But where CART had a problem was that the guy pulling the IRL strings, Tony George, also controlled the Indianapolis 500…. So, if you bitches want to run at Indy, you better get with the Indy Racing League.

While the two groups were in fighting, NASCAR and the France family poured tons of money into improving many of the race facilities to accommodate massive crowds - and I will say Sears Point, as an example, is a MUCH better racetrack with more garages better grandstands and a less grimy experience for the spectators.

So CART imploded and IRL eventually courted all the competitive teams but while they were earning their stripes as the New Originals [Spinal Tap reference] viewers attention waned… and NASCAR caught their waning focus and directed toward racing that looked loosely like a car they might drive. It’s a Toyota, after all. (Like FUCK it is!)

Doc Ivey nailed it, though. Like nearly all professional sports, when done well it appears largely straightforward and absolutely easy… when done well.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by jason_recliner » October 9th 2022, 10:16pm

DoctorIvey wrote:
October 9th 2022, 11:09am
Car racing, like bicycle racing, does not make for good spectator sport for the uninitiated. Much of the drama is subtle and easily missed, and much of the impressive exhibition of skill is lost on a screen. Still, the same could be said about pitching a baseball or hitting a golf ball.
The difference is that bike racing is a display of super-human (if drug-fuelled) physical ability. I think anybody who's ever ridden a bike up a hill can have their mind well and truly boggled watching a bike race.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by DoctorIvey » October 10th 2022, 7:09am

I guess. But I’m not lapping an F1 car anywhere near as fast as Lewis Hamilton. And I’ve ridden motorcycles all my life and cannot wrap my head around what I see in Moto GP. Still, it’s usually pretty boring on tv. Bicycle track racing is a great spectator sport. Imagine watching the Ashes, for example, if it could be played on a gigantic moving field, and you wait all day for it and it passes you in a minute or so. That’s every bicycle road race ever conducted.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by jason_recliner » October 10th 2022, 4:42pm

Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Driving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by bedlam » October 12th 2022, 1:44am

jason_recliner wrote:
October 10th 2022, 4:42pm
Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Diving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
I drove a V8 supercar around Barbagello Racetrack for a while and shaved huge time off from lap to lap...until I couldn't anymore. Then the driving coach (who holds the lap record for the track) took me for a lap.

Holy fucking shit. There was nothing easy about it. I'd have more of a chance beating Hussein Bolt.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by DoctorIvey » October 12th 2022, 3:56am

I’ve beaten some tour stage winners (heck, some tour winners) in single day events. But the couple times I’ve been around the track (as a passenger mind you) I’ve had literal nightmares. But I get your point. It probably had more to do with a lack of control of the situation. Still, did you ever see Mario Andretti’s friction circle? Or watched Niki Lauda in his prime? Or Valentino Rossi?
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by jason_recliner » October 12th 2022, 4:31am

bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 1:44am
jason_recliner wrote:
October 10th 2022, 4:42pm
Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Diving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
I drove a V8 supercar around Barbagello Racetrack for a while and shaved huge time off from lap to lap...until I couldn't anymore. Then the driving coach (who holds the lap record for the track) took me for a lap.

Holy fucking shit. There was nothing easy about it. I'd have more of a chance beating Hussein Bolt.
No offence, but you're old and not the fittest specimen. 20-30 years ago you could have done a lot better.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by jason_recliner » October 12th 2022, 4:34am

DoctorIvey wrote:
October 12th 2022, 3:56am
I’ve beaten some tour stage winners (heck, some tour winners) in single day events.
That's amazing. As somebody who dabbled in road riding as a teen until I realised how brutal it is and switched to MTB, HUGE respect.
DoctorIvey wrote:
October 12th 2022, 3:56am
... Valentino Rossi?
F1 Bikes / Moto GP is not the same as driving a car. Physical, and INCREDIBLY ballsy.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by DoctorIvey » October 12th 2022, 4:44pm

jason_recliner wrote:
October 12th 2022, 4:34am
DoctorIvey wrote:
October 12th 2022, 3:56am
I’ve beaten some tour stage winners (heck, some tour winners) in single day events.
That's amazing. As somebody who dabbled in road riding as a teen until I realised how brutal it is and switched to MTB, HUGE respect.

I’ve raced bicycles against some of your countrymen. Allan Peiper, Phil Anderson, Danny Clark instantly come to mind. Super hard men. John Nicholson, Danny Pate, both former world champions, I think.
DoctorIvey wrote:
October 12th 2022, 3:56am
... Valentino Rossi?
F1 Bikes / Moto GP is not the same as driving a car. Physical, and INCREDIBLY ballsy.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by bbattle » October 12th 2022, 5:21pm

A lot of F1 and Moto GP drivers ride their bicycles in the off season to stay in shape.

Driving is actually physically brutal the way these guys are racing. Not just the physicality of wrestling the steering wheel through thousands of turns but the gear shifts that have to be done at precisely the right times or else lose position. Just keeping your nerve up requires a ton of calories. Just ask the chess grand masters. They burn 6k calories just sitting at the chess table.

Filippo Ganno just set the one hour record on a 3D printed bicycle by riding almost 57km in one hour. That is just bat shit crazy fast.

Meanwhile, last Saturday, I did a quick 2hour ride, averaging a pathetic 15mph (24Kmh).
https://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/5249354722
Damn wind was BRUTAL; seemed to be a headwind no matter which direction I went.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by bedlam » October 12th 2022, 5:41pm

jason_recliner wrote:
October 12th 2022, 4:31am
bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 1:44am
jason_recliner wrote:
October 10th 2022, 4:42pm
Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Diving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
I drove a V8 supercar around Barbagello Racetrack for a while and shaved huge time off from lap to lap...until I couldn't anymore. Then the driving coach (who holds the lap record for the track) took me for a lap.

Holy fucking shit. There was nothing easy about it. I'd have more of a chance beating Hussein Bolt.
No offence, but you're old and not the fittest specimen. 20-30 years ago you could have done a lot better.
This was years ago.

I used to have a friend who truly believed that if he wanted to get into the Olympics he could and that the only thing stopping him was he didn't want it enough. He just couldn't get his head around the idea that people at the level of an Olympic qualifier were vastly better (at whatever physical pursuit we might choose) and they had a relentless desire (that he couldn't match) on top of that. Completely delusional on the issue.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by DoctorIvey » October 12th 2022, 6:26pm

bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 5:41pm
jason_recliner wrote:
October 12th 2022, 4:31am
bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 1:44am
jason_recliner wrote:
October 10th 2022, 4:42pm
Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Diving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
I drove a V8 supercar around Barbagello Racetrack for a while and shaved huge time off from lap to lap...until I couldn't anymore. Then the driving coach (who holds the lap record for the track) took me for a lap.

Holy fucking shit. There was nothing easy about it. I'd have more of a chance beating Hussein Bolt.
No offence, but you're old and not the fittest specimen. 20-30 years ago you could have done a lot better.
This was years ago.

I used to have a friend who truly believed that if he wanted to get into the Olympics he could and that the only thing stopping him was he didn't want it enough. He just couldn't get his head around the idea that people at the level of an Olympic qualifier were vastly better (at whatever physical pursuit we might choose) and they had a relentless desire (that he couldn't match) on top of that. Completely delusional on the issue.
I had a buddy like that too, and do you know what? He made the Olympic team. For Israel.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by bedlam » October 12th 2022, 9:30pm

DoctorIvey wrote:
October 12th 2022, 6:26pm
bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 5:41pm
jason_recliner wrote:
October 12th 2022, 4:31am
bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 1:44am
jason_recliner wrote:
October 10th 2022, 4:42pm
Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Diving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
I drove a V8 supercar around Barbagello Racetrack for a while and shaved huge time off from lap to lap...until I couldn't anymore. Then the driving coach (who holds the lap record for the track) took me for a lap.

Holy fucking shit. There was nothing easy about it. I'd have more of a chance beating Hussein Bolt.
No offence, but you're old and not the fittest specimen. 20-30 years ago you could have done a lot better.
This was years ago.

I used to have a friend who truly believed that if he wanted to get into the Olympics he could and that the only thing stopping him was he didn't want it enough. He just couldn't get his head around the idea that people at the level of an Olympic qualifier were vastly better (at whatever physical pursuit we might choose) and they had a relentless desire (that he couldn't match) on top of that. Completely delusional on the issue.
I had a buddy like that too, and do you know what? He made the Olympic team. For Israel.
In curling, dressage?

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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by jason_recliner » October 12th 2022, 11:29pm

bbattle wrote:
October 12th 2022, 5:21pm
Filippo Ganno just set the one hour record on a 3D printed bicycle by riding almost 57km in one hour.
FUCK ME DEAD. What the fuck?

OT: Does this mean that 60km/h is potentially achievable one day?
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by jason_recliner » October 12th 2022, 11:37pm

bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 5:41pm
jason_recliner wrote:
October 12th 2022, 4:31am
bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 1:44am
jason_recliner wrote:
October 10th 2022, 4:42pm
Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Diving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
I drove a V8 supercar around Barbagello Racetrack for a while and shaved huge time off from lap to lap...until I couldn't anymore. Then the driving coach (who holds the lap record for the track) took me for a lap.

Holy fucking shit. There was nothing easy about it. I'd have more of a chance beating Hussein Bolt.
No offence, but you're old and not the fittest specimen. 20-30 years ago you could have done a lot better.
This was years ago.
Yeah, but 20-30 years ago?

You're not a complete klutz. If you were young and somebody gave you a competitive car you probably could do competiitve lap times.

I drove a 1970s BMW at 150km/h+ for several km up the highway out of Adelaide, in the dark and rain, to get to a party at which I was supposed to DJ, freaking out because I was going to miss my sets. Lots of drifting. And here I am. Yes, I was a bit lucky, but ultimately driving is easy.
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Re: Bathurst 2022

Post by bedlam » October 13th 2022, 4:28am

jason_recliner wrote:
October 12th 2022, 11:37pm
bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 5:41pm
jason_recliner wrote:
October 12th 2022, 4:31am
bedlam wrote:
October 12th 2022, 1:44am
jason_recliner wrote:
October 10th 2022, 4:42pm
Hamilton isn't quite as dominant now his car isn't the fastest. I reckon if you were younger, had the fastest car, and a bit of training you could drive quick. Diving is pretty much the easiest thing you'll ever do. There's no way I could complete a TdF stage, let alone the race, let alone be competitive.
I drove a V8 supercar around Barbagello Racetrack for a while and shaved huge time off from lap to lap...until I couldn't anymore. Then the driving coach (who holds the lap record for the track) took me for a lap.

Holy fucking shit. There was nothing easy about it. I'd have more of a chance beating Hussein Bolt.
No offence, but you're old and not the fittest specimen. 20-30 years ago you could have done a lot better.
This was years ago.
Yeah, but 20-30 years ago?

You're not a complete klutz. If you were young and somebody gave you a competitive car you probably could do competiitve lap times.

I drove a 1970s BMW at 150km/h+ for several km up the highway out of Adelaide, in the dark and rain, to get to a party at which I was supposed to DJ, freaking out because I was going to miss my sets. Lots of drifting. And here I am. Yes, I was a bit lucky, but ultimately driving is easy.
Many moons ago I did some driving in a group N rally car locally, so can drive a bit. But watching the high-end guys is like something else entirely. I can't imagine what the top F1 guys are able to do.
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