When SWISS means China

Watches marketed & sold by Invicta Watch Group
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When SWISS means China

Post by koimaster » March 19th 2013, 8:06am


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To watchgeeks and invicta fanbois........... Real photos of a real Invicta watch and the original movement in it. Opened up by a real watchmaker here in Salem. Check the rules for SWISS on a watch dial. To all of you who purchased this POS........... You got FUCKED!



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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by elau » March 19th 2013, 9:01am

Some no doubt got fucked but I believe many are willing lemmings.

For you Watch Geek trolls, buying an Inshita, Android, or any of those TV brands...........you are supporting IP infringements, human trafficking, child porn, drug trafficking and many other form of illegal activities.

And for those who claim veterans. You just indirectly pay for a bullet that has a cross hair on one of your brother in arms.

Think about it before you reach for the phone to ShopNBC next time!!
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by ChronoMATT » March 19th 2013, 9:07am

Where are our federal customs stormtroopers on this? It's not the first time they've pulled this crap. In the case of this specific model, it was stated by Jim that "Swiss" is "Swiss Made". You'd think with the government being on a money grab right now, they would be first in line to fine Lielow. I have posted several times the US customs law that states the only requirement for a dial hallmark of "Swiss" is that the movement is officially "Swiss Made" -- a violation here. You'd think Invicta would have had their import privileges suspended by now or at the very least, hit with a class action suit.

Here is as good a place as any to repeat my post on WG asking Jim about this exact model's Swiss heritage. It was the beginning of the end for me there. My patronizing "buddy" tone was done on purpose.

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Last edited by Anonymous on March 19th 2013, 9:23am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by DBCooper » March 19th 2013, 10:04am

Here is my Swinese Invicta. It doesn't say SWISS or SWISS MADE but it does say SWISS MOVT. Just as deceptive as far as I'm concerned.

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After all, no ham-wristed louts complained when all watches were 34mm - no cries of "looks like a little girl's watch on my wrist!" Like King Canute on the beach, that's where I draw the line - come what may.

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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by TemerityB » March 19th 2013, 11:23am

DBCooper wrote:Here is my Swinese Invicta. It doesn't say SWISS or SWISS MADE but it does say SWISS MOVT. Just as deceptive as far as I'm concerned.


No question about it - the same way there's no question that IWG absolutely knew was was going into those watches as well as what was printed on their faces. And imagine if it was a mistake, as they'd try to explain it away...wouldn't that be even worse, signifying that no one in the company knows what's really going on?

I know what's going on: ALL Invicta watches are made in China, regardless of what they say on their faces. Prove me wrong, Mr. Capers. If you don't state where your Swiss made stuff is "Swiss Made," then it isn't. I know where Swiss made Hamiliton watches are made. I know where Hublot is made. Cripes, I know where Roamer watches are made.

So, Mr. Capers - where is "Swiss Made" Invicta made?



Crickets.

Oh - and since so many IWG "experts" and sales types are heading to the big Basel watch fair, why not take a moment, bring a camera, and show us your Invicta Swiss factories? You take us inside your Florida HQ and to your "Inivicta Luxury Villa" or whatever it was. So bring a camcorder and take us to your Swiss factories!


Louder crickets.
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by 3Flushes » March 19th 2013, 11:57am

DBCooper wrote:does say SWISS MOVT.


This is just as deceptive, and concomitantly a legal dodge. The sig "MOVT" means nothing. The Federation requires watches with movements that qualify as Swiss to be marked "Swiss Movement." The terms Swiss Movt, Swiss Mov't, Swiss Parts Movt, etc. are nothing more than a fraudulent way to increase the perceived value of a watch to the consumer, the fact of which is self evident and irrefutable. If it did not do so, why would they mark their products in this fashion? It is further a dodge of Int'l trade law. Among other impediments, because they do not violate the established Federation standards set forth for marking such watches, their is no legal case to be made. This is why you will never see an Invicta watch marked Swiss Movement.

However, this practice clearly is a glaringly deceptive and fraudulent trade practice. The failure of any agency with the provenance to do so to act is one of the greatest failures of all time of the the U.S. Government to protect American consumers.
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by Luftwafflles » March 19th 2013, 12:26pm

elau wrote:Some no doubt got fucked but I believe many are willing lemmings.

For you Watch Geek trolls, buying an Inshita, Android, or any of those TV brands...........you are supporting IP infringements, human trafficking, child porn, drug trafficking and many other form of illegal activities.
Not to mention giving babies AIDS, killing whales, and burning down convents full of nuns. Hmmm..think I'll order up another Android.
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by koimaster » March 19th 2013, 12:35pm

3Flushes wrote:
DBCooper wrote:does say SWISS MOVT.


This is just as deceptive, and concomitantly a legal dodge. The sig "MOVT" means nothing. The Federation requires watches with movements that qualify as Swiss to be marked "Swiss Movement." The terms Swiss Movt, Swiss Mov't, Swiss Parts Movt, etc. are nothing more than a fraudulent way to increase the perceived value of a watch to the consumer, the fact of which is self evident and irrefutable. If it did not do so, why would they mark their products in this fashion? It is further a dodge of Int'l trade law. Among other impediments, because they do not violate the established Federation standards set forth for marking such watches, their is no legal case to be made. This is why you will never see an Invicta watch marked Swiss Movement.

However, this practice clearly is a glaringly deceptive and fraudulent trade practice. The failure of any agency with the provenance to do so to act is one of the greatest failures of all time of the the U.S. Government to protect American consumers.



US customs allows teh word SWISS on the dial if the movement is Swiss, but it must be Swiss, not chineses or swissese.
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Great info....

Post by TimeBeing » March 19th 2013, 1:19pm

Luftwafflles wrote:
elau wrote:Some no doubt got fucked but I believe many are willing lemmings.

For you Watch Geek trolls, buying an Inshita, Android, or any of those TV brands...........you are supporting IP infringements, human trafficking, child porn, drug trafficking and many other form of illegal activities.
Not to mention giving babies AIDS, killing whales, and burning down convents full of nuns. Hmmm..think I'll order up another Android.


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How does this happen?

Post by attila350 » March 19th 2013, 6:53pm

I've seen enough here to know that something fishy is going on with Invicta, my question is why is nobody stopping it? Haven't they ever been reported to customs? And if so, why hasn't anything been done? Here in New York where in Chinatown, you can get a counterfeit anything, even they swallow their tongues when asked for certain brands. Case in point. Last time I was there about two summers ago I asked this guy selling watches. If he had any Movado watches and he practically swallowed his tongue and got out of there as quickly as possible, at first I was very puzzled, but I figured that Movado must be putting heat on someone. Has anybody ever reported them to the consumer protection agency?
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by elau » March 19th 2013, 7:03pm

Oh I think Customs know fulls well what is going on but there are always other matters that have higher priority than fake watches.

Then again look at the post just above yours. Most people still have an indifferent view on this matter, or look at it half heartedly.

Nothing will ever be accomplished until everybody takes a hard nose on the subject.
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by ChronoMATT » March 19th 2013, 7:14pm

I agree. I have always felt companies that use the abbreviated version of "Movement", a la "MVNT", are doing so to deceive. At a quick glance, "SWISS MOVT" in tiny type underneath a six o'clock market can easily be mistaken for "SWISS MADE".

3Flushes wrote:This is just as deceptive, and concomitantly a legal dodge. The sig "MOVT" means nothing. The Federation requires watches with movements that qualify as Swiss to be marked "Swiss Movement." The terms Swiss Movt, Swiss Mov't, Swiss Parts Movt, etc. are nothing more than a fraudulent way to increase the perceived value of a watch to the consumer....
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by ChronoMATT » March 19th 2013, 7:21pm

I agree there are more pressing matters for our Customs Dept., but most, if not all, shipments are inspected to some degree before given the green light to enter. With watches, the check list is pretty short, right? Mainly country of origin vs. hallmark claims. If someone like Invicter regularly skirts laws, they should raise a flag anytime a shipment comes to port. If shit is caught like what we have seen displayed in this thread, it should get a one way ticket back to NoodleLand.

elau wrote:Oh I think Customs know fulls well what is going on but there are always other matters that have higher priority than fake watches.

Then again look at the post just above yours. Most people still have an indifferent view on this matter, or look at it half heartedly.

Nothing will ever be accomplished until everybody takes a hard nose on the subject.
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by Luftwafflles » March 20th 2013, 4:33am

The horror !!!!
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by TemerityB » March 20th 2013, 6:12am

codguy wrote:And to think we still members here that are glued to those fucking tv shopping shows (both slop and wow) and continue to purchase the crap watches.

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Who here is buying that stuff? I think we watch for comedy and/or catch 'em in their mountain of lies, but who is buying that shit, other than the newbies?
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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by Hawk » March 20th 2013, 7:22am

My conjecture is that US Customs is likely to never function well as a consumer protection group although the .gov has suggested in writing that it would be a really nice thing to wish for.

CBP pdf

Historically, US customs job was to collect tariffs. In the specific case of watches the legislation dates back to protectionist measures passed in 1930 - back when Illinois, Waltham and a host of other domestic producers were still viable. Marking "Swiss" on a watch was a warning to consumers much like "Spain" or "Belgium" were marks that warned people away from cheap firearms. "Swiss" as a mark of quality didn't surface until much later.

Meantime customs, in addition to tariff enforcement, gets stuck with DHS stuff, amended Lacey act nonsense and a large ration of other stuff putting consumer protection (in a manner 180 degrees opposed to the original intent) pretty much toward the bottom of the heap. I wouldn't expect a change anytime soon. There's still people old enough at CBP to remember that "Swiss" was intended to mean "Not made in America" and thus would serve the exact same purpose as "Chinese", "Croatian" or whatever - you know it's not made in America - job done.

That leaves the FH's ownership of the marks at USPTO viable and enforceable - through civil action and only when FH is so inclined to pursue the matter and at no other time.

Class action? IANAL. But. There's a requirement for class certification that involves the concept of harm. You have to have been harmed or no cert. And here it gets slippery - it'd be nice if Don B chimed in. You and a butt load of others bought a watch that was hand made in Switzerland by the top 10% of Swiss watchmakers. It was cased up, quality checked in Swiss ISO-9001 certified facilities by the same people that could have just as easily been employed by Rolex or Patek and - here comes the rub: you paid 200.00 for it rather than 2,000.00 or 20,000.00.

Have you been harmed? Probably not. You were lied to but a reasonable person might infer that he was, in fact, paying for a Chinese watch.

Could you mount a class action against Axe because you paid 4.00 for body wash and didn't get laid like it promised on the bottle? A case could be made that a reasonable person should have known he wasn't getting 100% assurance of getting laid for 4.00 and he probably wasn't getting a Rolex for 200.00. In both cases you have not been harmed though you were, in varying degrees, misled.

I see the only viable option being simply consumer education - and that is a large part of what this place is about. Whatever is accomplished here is far more effective than harping on customs or waiting for FH to react every time we might wish them to.

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Re: When SWISS means China

Post by timex » March 20th 2013, 7:49am

ChronoMATT wrote:They must be in the closet. I haven't read of one purchase by anyone since being a member.


I did.
Posted it here.

LINK: Get your torches ready.

timex on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:06 am wrote:And to re-ignite it all, you can go ahead and make me the Burning Man.
Just like Jimmy Swaggart humping that Hooker, Folks I Have Sinned!!!!!!

Came Monday, Invicta Grand Diver, 0992, SW200 with T25 Tritium tubes, and a cool engraved case back. $150. used.
Bought it from a fool who paid waaayy to much!!!!

It'll keep company with a couple of other Grand Divers, and a Hamilton Khaki Chrono, DB AM 500, 2 Rollies, and some others.


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