A new arrival

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bobbee
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A new arrival

Post by bobbee » April 5th 2017, 8:04am

Got this in the post this morning, pictures are from the seller.



ImageImageImage





Watch was working only when face up, dirty as hell and has no crystal.
I stripped it down, and cleaned the dial. As I thought, it came up pretty well with only one almost invisible hairline crack running from just below the R in "Lawrence" to just below the "10" in the sub dial.
The hands were rusty, and I gave them the biz with some wet & dry paper, and attached (temporarily until a new one that fits can be found) a piece off an old seconds hand to the broken one fitted.
I then stripped down the movement and pegged, cleaned and lubricated the jewels and pivot points, cleaned the ebauche (no name found, just numbers under the dial) and reassembled.
Working fine so far after 4 hours.
Cannot find anything about the "The Turret" name on the movement, but I have seen similar watches from WW1 with names in this fashion and I guess it was aimed at the military market.


How it looks now, will get a new crystal fitted and find a new sub dial hand.




ImageImage



Cheers for looking.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by bobbee » April 5th 2017, 9:21am

Thank you gents.
It may possibly be older, maybe Boer War. I found this trench watch with the same names on the movement and dial, "THE TURRET" and "Lawrence and Mayo". This will be WW1.



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Lawrence and Mayo provided scientific and military hardware from the late 1800's, started in London then opened shops and offices in India.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by MKTheVintageBloke » April 5th 2017, 10:29am

That's some brilliant work on this one, Bob. The layout of that movement seems completely unfamiliar to me, I can't match it with any larger manufacturer of generic movements. Or it's just modified beyond recognition.

Anyway, a cool watch.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by TemerityB » April 5th 2017, 11:12am

Wow. What a difference.

Great job, Bob.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by svaglic » April 5th 2017, 11:25am

How do you clean the dial without scratching or messing it up?

Very nice work on cleaning it up and the research.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by bobbee » April 5th 2017, 12:28pm

Thanks again guys!
The dial is enamel, so fairly easy to clean. I can't remember how, but even the cracks can be cleaned so that they almost disappear.
Care has to be taken where lettering is, as this is often applied after the dial has been manufactured, sometimes with an easily removed ink.
Mike, I don't recognise the movement either. Most likely Swiss.


EDIT- Thinking how much the watch looks like this one, an advert I found from 1893.



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An example of the Skirmisher watch.



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And the 1901 "Campaign" from Mappin & Webb.




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Re: A new arrival

Post by bobbee » April 5th 2017, 3:50pm

Racer-X wrote:Looks great, nice job. How did you clean the dial/hands?


Saliva on tissue for the dial, and peg wood to get the tougher recalcitrant marks off, then buffed with a dry tissue.
The hands were gently wet & dry-ed with 2000 grit, then pegged and wiped with tissue. I want to try out re-blueing using heat, need to get a blowtorch and thermometer.

Thanks again all, it was worthwhile doing this one!
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Re: A new arrival

Post by MKTheVintageBloke » April 5th 2017, 5:02pm

bobbee wrote:Mike, I don't recognise the movement either. Most likely Swiss.

Well, it doesn't look like a British movement from that period, that's for sure. I've spent the last 40 minutes or so on digging in the Ranfft archive, and...nothing.

One thought I've had, is that it might be a very heavily modified ebauche by Election. Here's a sample Election movement:
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&2&2uswk&Election_47
Some details check out (of course, it's not this particular Election, but certain layout features can suggest that manufacturer), like positions of certain screws, the positions of the bearing jewels of the gear train, the location of the stem release screw, and finally- there are certain similarities in the design of the click. It's one hell of a long shot, and my wee theory that it's an Election is most likely total pish and bollocks, but as of now, I haven't got a better one.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by Mortuus Fakeuus » April 5th 2017, 5:42pm

Superbly done work, Bob, especially with that dial. I recently acquired an old Zenith pocket watch that had lugs attached to it so that it could be worn as a wristwatch. It's currently with my watchmaker, having a deep clean and function check. That, along with your finds here, is really getting me more and more interested in acquiring at least another one or two similar items. I also have a NZ friend over at BDWF who loves those trench watches and is quite the tinkerer, like you. At any rate, very good stuff all around... 8-)
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Re: A new arrival

Post by biglove » April 5th 2017, 6:30pm

What a neat find. You really did nicely cleaning it up and, evidently, know your way around movements far better than I would ever imagine I could.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by bobbee » April 5th 2017, 11:25pm

MKTheVintageBloke wrote:
bobbee wrote:Mike, I don't recognise the movement either. Most likely Swiss.

Well, it doesn't look like a British movement from that period, that's for sure. I've spent the last 40 minutes or so on digging in the Ranfft archive, and...nothing.

One thought I've had, is that it might be a very heavily modified ebauche by Election. Here's a sample Election movement:
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&2&2uswk&Election_47
Some details check out (of course, it's not this particular Election, but certain layout features can suggest that manufacturer), like positions of certain screws, the positions of the bearing jewels of the gear train, the location of the stem release screw, and finally- there are certain similarities in the design of the click. It's one hell of a long shot, and my wee theory that it's an Election is most likely total pish and bollocks, but as of now, I haven't got a better one.



I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's an Election but I am crap at finding the movements any way!
I should have taken a pic of the dial side and the keyless works, that might have helped...

Thanks again everyone for the comments! :cheers:
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Re: A new arrival

Post by bobbee » April 6th 2017, 4:00am

Sigh- don't want to bore you guys, but I forgot to mention that the movement has a "moustache" counterpoise lever, something used in finer movements. The unusual stud carrier is another thing I haven't seen on other movements too.


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A pic of what the moustache lever looks like.



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I tried doing a search using Roland's refined search, but no joy except that "moustache lever" turned up a PP movement that sadly looked nothing like mine...
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Re: A new arrival

Post by MKTheVintageBloke » April 6th 2017, 12:50pm

Well, the mobile hairspring stud carrier design on this one is pretty distinctive. I mostly see ones of a more elliptical shape, with two screws. I'm quite sure I've seen ones with a single screw on Agassiz and "Jules Jurgensen" layout movements by LeCoultre (and the standard "bar layouts" by LC and top versions of FHF ones), not sure if anywhere else (although probably in other movements as well).

Regarding the moustache lever, you might want to keep an eye out on WUS F11 next week, Bob, as SilkeN and me have been working on a guide to Lepine I-V ebauches (mostly by Japy Freres and FHF), with a small portion of it devoted to escapement types, moustache levers included, and the transition from levers on the side of the escape wheel to the ancre ligne droite levers. Once we post it, I'll post a link to the thread here on WL.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by bobbee » April 6th 2017, 1:59pm

Nice one Mike.
If you find time, could you ask Silke or Enrico if they recognise the movement on this?
I asked David Boettcher if he recognised it, but it's a new one to him too. He did tell me that the "Turret" name mis registered to Moeris, but that movement doesn't look like any Moeris I know of.

Look forward to seeing your article dude.
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Re: A new arrival

Post by MKTheVintageBloke » April 8th 2017, 3:25pm

OK, the maker is now known... Guess you owe Enrico at least a pint, Bob. If not a gallon...

The movement is indeed Swiss; it was designed by a Ferdinand Bachschmid of Biel, and later on made by Orion - a movement manufacturer registered to a company called Brandt & Hoffman, who took the business over from Bachschmid.

Truth be told, I don't think I would have ever managed to find that info out myself- I've never heard of Bachschmid or Orion before, and I mostly associate the name Brandt with Louis Brandt & Frere, the company behind Omega, Helvetia and Patria.
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