Where did the orange go - Part 2

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Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by bedlam » January 14th 2014, 12:56am

Took some Makos for a dive to compare what happens to the dial colours at depth. Pics taken at 14m with the available sun hitting the watches and a local keeping an eye on things. The second shot is the same with strobes added to provide light that's not filtered by the water.

Why claim an orange dial is especially for divers when the deeper you go the less its visible? Maybe they should say its designed specifically for snorkelers!

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Image

Edit: Just noticed that the camera defaulted to auto white balance in the non-strobe shot so that orange is being amplified even more than it actually appeared!
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by 3Flushes » January 14th 2014, 1:35am

AWESOME demonstration Carl. The Navy ties / orange dial prattle appears to be bullshit intended to add cachet to a product sold by a company who routinely falsely represents itself to add prestige and fount to its' brand name. Your pics should be posted on the DOXA forum at WUS.

EDIT: I'm going to check with a friend out at NSWTC/Coronado and see what I can find out about what the USN issue diving watch/preferred dial is, and if DOXA has ever had any relationship with the US or Aussie Navy. Regarding the dial, I want to specifically know if, as the actual orange color of the dial (background) recedes at depth, whether or not the result is that the lighter lumed numbers/markers and hands (foreground) are therefore better projected? Given the physics of light and its' absorption/reflection properties with color, it may not be the visibility of the actual color of the dial that is important, rather the overall readability of the watch. If anyone has done the research and knows for certain, it will be the NSWTC staff/BUDS diving instructors.
Last edited by 3Flushes on January 14th 2014, 5:43pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by Mortuus Fakeuus » January 14th 2014, 2:06am

That is a cool demo, beds! I seem to recall an animated page that created the depth effect on dial colors. If I remember it right, green (of all things) won out... :mrgreen: I agree that this should be added to the Doxa page; I'm sure that would make its remaining fans very happy. BTW, I really like those occy's you have there in Oz...
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by TemerityB » January 14th 2014, 10:23am

You guys are the bomb.

Just another reason that while i like dive watches, I take stats about lume, color, and depth ratings claims and never even think about them in watches under $1,000 - and even at that, I think it's all pretty much a bunch of hooey. However, it is and always is fascinating to see the watches in actual dive conditions; another reason you fellows rule - the photos posted here are just amazing, always.
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by Mark1 » January 14th 2014, 10:42am

Nice thread. It would appear to me from those pictures that legibility at any kind of depth would be more influenced by hands and indices than dial color.
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by koimaster » January 14th 2014, 11:57am

Mark1 wrote:Nice thread. It would appear to me from those pictures that legibility at any kind of depth would be more influenced by hands and indices than dial color.



I agree. It appears that the claims about orange or most brighter colors are incorrect. Maybe that is why Sea Hunt never had a Doxa. :twisted:
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by koimaster » January 14th 2014, 3:48pm

DoxaDave to the rescue a couple of years ago at the Rolex forums.


https://www.rolexforums.com/archive/ind ... 69375.html
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by conjurer » January 14th 2014, 11:25pm

iwasbanned wrote:Bedlam, are you banned at WUS? I typed your name in a reply and got this:

"Here is what ...... said on his photo:"

Your name is a bad word?


Yup. Carl's screen-name is indeed a bad word at WUS. Although he is a communist, he is a gentleman and a man I'm proud to call a pal.
My little brain can't even comprehend how deep that is.

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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by gerdson » January 15th 2014, 2:08am

I asked the question on forum.watchtime.ch, a first summary:

The common answer was, orange is nothing more than a nice color for "desktop divers", but it has no practical value under water. I am still waiting for replies from some of the other "professional divers" there.

One interesting diagram on the absorption of color under water:

Image

It seems a black dial in combination with a very powerfull illumination of the hands and markers would still provide the best result. On German wikipedia, there is even a thread on the topic:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichtweite_unter_Wasser
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by bedlam » January 15th 2014, 9:40am

Also posted in the "ACHOO!!! - Allergic to Orange bullshit" thread

I know what the science says. The Doxa claims are similar to a paper by Luria from the 1970's, a research psychologist for the Navy. Problem is his experiments were looking at what colours were easy to distinguish in different types of water from clear Caribbean waters to the murky Thames. His outcomes were that different water turbidity favoured different colours, including orange in some conditions.

What he never reported was the change in the visibility of those colours as you go deeper....because he didn't test it. He describes measuring colour visibility based on linear horizontal distance, but didn't account for the effects of increasing the depth of the water. He must have tested in depths less than 15m or orange would never have been recommended. From a scuba diver's perspective these findings are useless.

Here is the paper: http://dspace.rubicon-foundation.org:80 ... sequence=1
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by conjurer » January 15th 2014, 12:55pm

bedlam wrote:Also posted in the "ACHOO!!! - Allergic to Orange bullshit" thread

I know what the science says. The Doxa claims are similar to a paper by Luria from the 1970's, a research psychologist for the Navy. Problem is his experiments were looking at what colours were easy to distinguish in different types of water from clear Caribbean waters to the murky Thames. His outcomes were that different water turbidity favoured different colours, including orange in some conditions.

What he never reported was the change in the visibility of those colours as you go deeper....because he didn't test it. He describes measuring colour visibility based on linear horizontal distance, but didn't account for the effects of increasing the depth of the water. He must have tested in depths less than 15m or orange would never have been recommended. From a scuba diver's perspective these findings are useless.

Here is the paper: http://dspace.rubicon-foundation.org:80 ... sequence=1



Image

Oh, yeah, turbidity. The ocean's got a lot of turbidity!
My little brain can't even comprehend how deep that is.

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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by Mortuus Fakeuus » January 15th 2014, 2:01pm

I guess if you never go deeper than, say, fifteen meters, then orange is just fine. I agree that the black dial with tons 'o lume is the best bet, but are tritium tubes (on the same black dial) of any value at depth?
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by gerdson » January 16th 2014, 2:43am

koimaster wrote:http://forums.watchuseek.com/f135/colors-depth-441391.html


Interesting!

I posted the question on forum.watchtime.ch as well. The most interesting outcome was:

"With an orange dial, statistically You are less likely to be eaten by a shark. On the other hand, it is more likely to be molested by horny squids, wanting to mate".

Other than that, the general opinion was: Orange sucks as a dial color, under water.
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by eddiea » January 16th 2014, 4:55am

bedlam wrote:Also posted in the "ACHOO!!! - Allergic to Orange bullshit" thread

I know what the science says. The Doxa claims are similar to a paper by Luria from the 1970's, a research psychologist for the Navy. Problem is his experiments were looking at what colours were easy to distinguish in different types of water from clear Caribbean waters to the murky Thames. His outcomes were that different water turbidity favoured different colours, including orange in some conditions.

What he never reported was the change in the visibility of those colours as you go deeper....because he didn't test it. He describes measuring colour visibility based on linear horizontal distance, but didn't account for the effects of increasing the depth of the water. He must have tested in depths less than 15m or orange would never have been recommended. From a scuba diver's perspective these findings are useless.

Here is the paper: http://dspace.rubicon-foundation.org:80 ... sequence=1

And....here
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24535
http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/cephsc ... antity.pdf
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by koimaster » January 17th 2014, 12:48am

http://dspace.rubicon-foundation.org:80 ... sequence=1


Funny, seems I could not post the link above at WUS in the orange dial thread I started.
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by 3Flushes » January 18th 2014, 3:02pm

koimaster wrote:Well, i guess the cunts at doxa forum got what they wanted, banned at WUS

Money talks, the truth walks.
My account is still good over there and I'ma have me some fun with those fuckin' assholes. I don't like it there anyway and haven't posted in years, but they will remember me for a long time to come. I'm about half way through my research which I am going to run so far up their asses, they are going to need an ENT to remove it for them, including their horse-shit pedigree. Cussler, too. Bwahahahahaha.
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by koimaster » January 20th 2014, 11:08am

eddiea wrote:
koimaster wrote:Well, i guess the cunts at doxa forum got what they wanted, banned at WUS

Amazingly, a pretty stupid way to recognize that you were right and/or have a point..... :shock:
Then again....is the Doxa/WUS forum, better illustrated in the link below.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKwVmAkJ9FE



Aside from deleting one of my posts about Cousteau, they also prevented my ID there from posting the link below which had been posted here by another member. Someone was finally able to post it today on that thread.

http://dspace.rubicon-foundation.org:80 ... sequence=1

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/orange ... 723-5.html
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by TemerityB » January 20th 2014, 1:28pm

koimaster wrote:Well, i guess the cunts at doxa forum got what they wanted, banned at WUS


When I read that line, I thought it was a rib - but it's real, isn't it?

That's so far over the line...I'm reading this and I still can't believe it. There's no "bashing" going on, just facts. What the fucking fuck!?!??
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Re: Where did the orange go - Part 2

Post by gerdson » January 20th 2014, 1:34pm

eddiea wrote:
koimaster wrote:Well, i guess the cunts at doxa forum got what they wanted, banned at WUS

Amazingly, a pretty stupid way to recognize that you were right and/or have a point..... :shock:
Then again....is the Doxa/WUS forum, better illustrated in the link below.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKwVmAkJ9FE


:lol:

Fuck WUS. I do still have an account, used to post on the vintage pages occasionally. No big issues there, and the moderators are quite ok. But I haven't checked in for 2 months. Screw them.
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