5000, Pimped

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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by MAX » March 5th 2022, 5:35am

I read it as 1 of each per household so you could get two if you were so inclined for only $7,500 MSRP. Ill wait.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by DocKlock » March 5th 2022, 7:34am

" . . . built out of titanium. And not just your run of the mill titanium." Well, I guess that helps justify the price.
As a service to fellow Lords, I will relinquish my "one per household" to first person that mails me either $3,500 or $4,000 in $20's and $50's. Quick, well, fairly quick, turnaround is guaranteed. :loll:
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by smellody » March 5th 2022, 9:26am

DocKlock wrote:
March 5th 2022, 7:34am
" . . . built out of titanium. And not just your run of the mill titanium." Well, I guess that helps justify the price.
As a service to fellow Lords, I will relinquish my "one per household" to first person that mails me either $3,500 or $4,000 in $20's and $50's. Quick, well, fairly quick, turnaround is guaranteed. :loll:
X's 2. I'll relinquish my household's interest for $75. PayPal accepted.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by smellody » March 5th 2022, 11:28am

codguy wrote:
March 5th 2022, 10:36am
I'm digging them as well------------ but who the fuck would purchase a titanium square G at any price?

FFS, a black metal and digital Casio with gold coloured accents
:dsdd:

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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by 3Flushes » March 5th 2022, 3:57pm

smellody wrote:
March 5th 2022, 9:26am
DocKlock wrote:
March 5th 2022, 7:34am
" . . . built out of titanium. And not just your run of the mill titanium." Well, I guess that helps justify the price.
As a service to fellow Lords, I will relinquish my "one per household" to first person that mails me either $3,500 or $4,000 in $20's and $50's. Quick, well, fairly quick, turnaround is guaranteed. :loll:
X's 2. I'll relinquish my household's interest for $75. PayPal accepted.
I'm hanging on to mine - as the demand rises to Rolex proportions, it'll be Katie bar the door on those babies when the waiting lists start.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 5th 2022, 9:06pm

conjurer wrote:
March 5th 2022, 8:37pm
What kind of nut pays four grand for a fucking Gee??
It's crazy expensive but there's evidently a lot of expense in production. Likely more than a typical $3-4k 'luxury' steel dive watch.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by 3Flushes » March 6th 2022, 5:03pm

jason_recliner wrote:
March 5th 2022, 9:06pm
conjurer wrote:
March 5th 2022, 8:37pm
What kind of nut pays four grand for a fucking Gee??
It's crazy expensive but there's evidently a lot of expense in production. Likely more than a typical $3-4k 'luxury' steel dive watch.
Hell, just configuring the by-hand segment of the assembly line in the contours of the letter G formed in the logo font must have cost Mr. G at least a billion yen. Not to mention all that .750 titanium in the case and bracelet. Then there's all the brand new technology; multi band auto sync / set, bluetooth, a stopwatch that does lap times. too, and solar power - easily 10's of billions yen more in R&D.

Why, this watch is a bargain, by golly.

/s ------ just in case it wasn't clear
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 6th 2022, 5:20pm

3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 5:03pm
jason_recliner wrote:
March 5th 2022, 9:06pm
conjurer wrote:
March 5th 2022, 8:37pm
What kind of nut pays four grand for a fucking Gee??
It's crazy expensive but there's evidently a lot of expense in production. Likely more than a typical $3-4k 'luxury' steel dive watch.
Hell, just configuring the by-hand segment of the assembly line in the contours of the letter G formed in the logo font must have cost Mr. G at least a billion yen. Not to mention all that .750 titanium in the case and bracelet. Then there's all the brand new technology; multi band auto sync / set, bluetooth, a stopwatch that does lap times. too, and solar power - easily 10's of billions yen more in R&D.

Why, this watch is a bargain, by golly.

/s ------ just in case it wasn't clear
I was referring in particular to Sallaz-polishing a 25-piece bezel and bracelet links. But yeah, forming and finishing each component from exotic Ti alloys probably isn't cheap either. Would it cost US$3,500? Of course not. Would it cost a lot more than a 2- or 3-piece stainless steel case and bracelet with basic polishing and brushing? By golly, I believe it would!
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by 3Flushes » March 6th 2022, 6:26pm

jason_recliner wrote:
March 6th 2022, 5:20pm
3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 5:03pm
jason_recliner wrote:
March 5th 2022, 9:06pm
conjurer wrote:
March 5th 2022, 8:37pm
What kind of nut pays four grand for a fucking Gee??
It's crazy expensive but there's evidently a lot of expense in production. Likely more than a typical $3-4k 'luxury' steel dive watch.
Hell, just configuring the by-hand segment of the assembly line in the contours of the letter G formed in the logo font must have cost Mr. G at least a billion yen. Not to mention all that .750 titanium in the case and bracelet. Then there's all the brand new technology; multi band auto sync / set, bluetooth, a stopwatch that does lap times. too, and solar power - easily 10's of billions yen more in R&D.

Why, this watch is a bargain, by golly.

/s ------ just in case it wasn't clear
...Would it cost US$3,500? Of course not...
^^^That

That said, the design of the bezel, most which is unseen, is impressive, but it is all that is new tech in this Mr. G (AFAIK this bezel hasn't been used previously in the series). The tortoise shell polishing of what is seen, is machined, so what? Titanium is comparatively cheap regardless of formulation - it is the third or fourth most common element on the face of the earth, IIRC. The alloy used is unlikely proprietary, there are 1000's of readily available Ti alloys in existence. The natural gas required to provide the 2,000°F to initially produce the metal probably costs more these days than do the elements required to make it - Titanium, argon, and magnesium.

It all sounds quite grand in the marketing, but the hype amounts to much adieu about, well, not much - at least not much new.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 6th 2022, 6:45pm

3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 6:26pm
jason_recliner wrote:
March 6th 2022, 5:20pm
3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 5:03pm
jason_recliner wrote:
March 5th 2022, 9:06pm
conjurer wrote:
March 5th 2022, 8:37pm
What kind of nut pays four grand for a fucking Gee??
It's crazy expensive but there's evidently a lot of expense in production. Likely more than a typical $3-4k 'luxury' steel dive watch.
Hell, just configuring the by-hand segment of the assembly line in the contours of the letter G formed in the logo font must have cost Mr. G at least a billion yen. Not to mention all that .750 titanium in the case and bracelet. Then there's all the brand new technology; multi band auto sync / set, bluetooth, a stopwatch that does lap times. too, and solar power - easily 10's of billions yen more in R&D.

Why, this watch is a bargain, by golly.

/s ------ just in case it wasn't clear
...Would it cost US$3,500? Of course not...
^^^That

That said, the design of the bezel, most which is unseen, is impressive, but it is all that is new tech in this Mr. G (AFAIK this bezel hasn't been used previously in the series). The tortoise shell polishing of what is seen, is machined, so what? Titanium is comparatively cheap regardless of formulation - it is the third or fourth most common element on the face of the earth, IIRC. The alloy used is unlikely proprietary, there are 1000's of readily available Ti alloys in existence. The natural gas required to provide the 2,000°F to initially produce the metal probably costs more these days than do the elements required to make it - Titanium, argon, and magnesium.

It all sounds quite grand in the marketing, but the hype amounts to much adieu about, well, not much - at least not much new.
No watch that retails for $3,500 costs $3,500 to make. But this would cost considerably more to make than $3,500 steel dive watches.

Titanium isn't a precious metal but it costs a lot more than stainless steel. Presumably your reference to the GAI of Ti was flippant? I've worked on a deposit that's 60+% Fe. The ore sells for around US$150/tonne.

Ti64 isn't particularly special. It's Grade 5 Ti. The DAT55G is some cool stuff, however, produced in Japan and suitable for forging. And Cobarion is fucking trick.

But what really makes Ti expensive is how difficult it is to work. That's why most Ti cases use large, simple forms, unlike this one. The Sallaz polishing is done by hand, requires a lot of skill, and takes a lot of time. It's particularly difficult to Sallaz polish hardened Ti. The surface can distort due to excessive heat. So you have to work slowly and with light pressure application relative to steel. The attention to detail on this watch is such that the bevels on the bracelet dimples have been polished as well. Using relatively expensive Japanese labour.

So I don't understand why US$4,000 for a steel dive watch is considered reasonable but not US$4,000 for this G. Anyway, I'm off to the AD in a bit to see what's what.
Last edited by jason_recliner on March 6th 2022, 7:05pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by bbattle » March 6th 2022, 6:55pm

What is ridiculous is Casio thinking there is a worthwhile market for such watches when their target market is much further down the food chain.

It's like Timex came out with a $5k dive watch. But at least the Timex would most likely be an automatic and not a digital watch using the same chipset as Casio's cheapest watch(more than likely).
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 6th 2022, 7:11pm

bbattle wrote:
March 6th 2022, 6:55pm
What is ridiculous is Casio thinking there is a worthwhile market for such watches when their target market is much further down the food chain.
I reckon you'll find there's heaps of guys with money who want one. We don't give a fuck about Sean Connery and Steve McQueen and car racing. We like hip-hop and house.
bbattle wrote:
March 6th 2022, 6:55pm
It's like Timex came out with a $5k dive watch. But at least the Timex would most likely be an automatic and not a digital watch using the same chipset as Casio's cheapest watch(more than likely).
I don't want an automatic dive watch. I want a G-Shock.

(as if you're paying for the movement in your $5k watch anyway!)
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by DoctorIvey » March 6th 2022, 9:22pm

I don’t know, I think it’s a point to consider. A 5k G with the exact movement as a 55 dollar Walmart wartch is hard to swallow. Seiko does some impressive stuff with Marinemaster quartz movements and if I spend 5k on a steel diver with a sellita or Miyota engine you can slap me. Not even sure Bamford has the cajones to charge that. I agree with you though that the average G customer who loves Lebron and thinks Courvoisier is the most ut beverage probably thinks a movement is something you leave in a gold plated commode.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 6th 2022, 9:44pm

DoctorIvey wrote:
March 6th 2022, 9:22pm
I don’t know, I think it’s a point to consider. A 5k G with the exact movement as a 55 dollar Walmart wartch is hard to swallow. Seiko does some impressive stuff with Marinemaster quartz movements and if I spend 5k on a steel diver with a sellita or Miyota engine you can slap me. Not even sure Bamford has the cajones to charge that. I agree with you though that the average G customer who loves Lebron and thinks Courvoisier is the most ut beverage probably thinks a movement is something you leave in a gold plated commode.
I can relate - years ago an in-house mechanical movement mattered to me. It just depends what you like and value. Now, if it keeps time, I'm not that fussed.

Several brands sell expensive watches with basic quartz movements inside - E.g Cartier. You're paying for the brand, and to a lesser extent the case, hands, dial, and strap/bracelet. These days I'd rather my money went on the parts I see and interact with, for the most part.

There are exceptions - I'd still love to have a handmade movement in a Dornbluth. But the vast majority of watches don't have exclusive expensive handmade movements - mechanical or otherwise.

Regardless, Chopard, Cartier, Omega, GS, MRG... they're all crazy expensive for what you get, especially in the current bauble-bubble. I just disagree that the MRG is priced any more outrageously than any other overpriced luxury bauble. And I think it's actually a little more reasonable than a lot of them (but still an outrageous rip-off!).
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by 3Flushes » March 6th 2022, 10:20pm

jason_recliner wrote:
March 6th 2022, 6:45pm
3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 6:26pm
jason_recliner wrote:
March 6th 2022, 5:20pm
3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 5:03pm
jason_recliner wrote:
March 5th 2022, 9:06pm
conjurer wrote:
March 5th 2022, 8:37pm
What kind of nut pays four grand for a fucking Gee??
It's crazy expensive but there's evidently a lot of expense in production. Likely more than a typical $3-4k 'luxury' steel dive watch.
Hell, just configuring the by-hand segment of the assembly line in the contours of the letter G formed in the logo font must have cost Mr. G at least a billion yen. Not to mention all that .750 titanium in the case and bracelet. Then there's all the brand new technology; multi band auto sync / set, bluetooth, a stopwatch that does lap times. too, and solar power - easily 10's of billions yen more in R&D.

Why, this watch is a bargain, by golly.

/s ------ just in case it wasn't clear
...Would it cost US$3,500? Of course not...
^^^That

That said, the design of the bezel, most which is unseen, is impressive, but it is all that is new tech in this Mr. G (AFAIK this bezel hasn't been used previously in the series). The tortoise shell polishing of what is seen, is machined, so what? Titanium is comparatively cheap regardless of formulation - it is the third or fourth most common element on the face of the earth, IIRC. The alloy used is unlikely proprietary, there are 1000's of readily available Ti alloys in existence. The natural gas required to provide the 2,000°F to initially produce the metal probably costs more these days than do the elements required to make it - Titanium, argon, and magnesium.

It all sounds quite grand in the marketing, but the hype amounts to much adieu about, well, not much - at least not much new.
No watch that retails for $3,500 costs $3,500 to make. But this would cost considerably more to make than $3,500 steel dive watches.

Titanium isn't a precious metal but it costs a lot more than stainless steel. Presumably your reference to the GAI of Ti was flippant? I've worked on a deposit that's 60+% Fe. The ore sells for around US$150/tonne.

Ti64 isn't particularly special. It's Grade 5 Ti. The DAT55G is some cool stuff, however, produced in Japan and suitable for forging. And Cobarion is fucking trick.

But what really makes Ti expensive is how difficult it is to work. That's why most Ti cases use large, simple forms, unlike this one. The Sallaz polishing is done by hand, requires a lot of skill, and takes a lot of time. It's particularly difficult to Sallaz polish hardened Ti. The surface can distort due to excessive heat. So you have to work slowly and with light pressure application relative to steel. The attention to detail on this watch is such that the bevels on the bracelet dimples have been polished as well. Using relatively expensive Japanese labour.

So I don't understand why US$4,000 for a steel dive watch is considered reasonable but not US$4,000 for this G. Anyway, I'm off to the AD in a bit to see what's what.
Sarcastic - /s = sarcasm ← a universal symbol - I thought the tone was clear, clarified in case, and yet was not. Perhaps koi can add /s to the of WL smilies.

According to the 3flushes library of horology on the subject, 'true' Sallaz' polishing - oftentimes incorrectly used interchangeably with zaratsu polishing although both are black polishing techniques with the objective of providing a mirror, distortion free finish, is accomplished by hand.

With the Sallaz technique, the parts to be polished are first blasted with tiny glass bits. Those parts are then polished against the face of a rotating tin plate coated in diamond dust. The technique, and that which became Zaratsu, were first accomplished in Germany with machines made by the Gerbr-Sallaz company.

The Zaratsu technique, following an initial blasting process, evolved to use the edge of a polishing wheel coated in diamond dust, thus polishing a smaller surface area. The Zaratsu process evolved to reduce the buildup of heat which can lead to a waxy or distorted surface (with both techniques), the result being fewer spoiled pieces, apparently most important when polishing large surface areas of steel, particularly the blades of swords, and whatnot. Seiko adopted the Zaratsu process for their top of the line watchcases.

Using the Sallaz technique, an individual craftsman working by hand with a grinder can only finish six watchcases a day. I'm not certain what that translates to in terms of the visible portion of Mr. G's bezel, but I think it's safe to assume it would be considerably more. Considerable enough to be of sufficient quantity for a mass produced watch marketed to the world? I'm skeptical, that even just the bezel could be polished by hand in sufficient numbers to support production. There are automated processes that control pressure and monitor heat that are a cut above standard finishing processes.

Much is made of the difficulty of working titanium. In the case of a watchcase, this aspect is grossly overstated. The alloyed metal is fashioned into a block and CNC machined into a case, and in most instances, is then machine smoothed and polished.

Is this Mr. G case a significant cut above the traditionally cased G? Indeed. Is it worth the price of the upgraded case?

Not in my opinion.

Look forward to what you think of it having seen it in the flesh.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 6th 2022, 11:28pm

3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 10:20pm

Using the Sallaz technique, an individual craftsman working by hand with a grinder can only finish six watchcases a day. I'm not certain what that translates to in terms of the visible portion of Mr. G's bezel, but I think it's safe to assume it would be considerably more. Considerable enough to be of sufficient quantity for a mass produced watch marketed to the world?
This really is the crux of the matter. It would take a long time to make one, it would take a lot of skill (it's hard to polish Ti to a high standard) and I don't expect Casio will make many. It will be mass produced but on a relatively small scale I imagine. I like that in a luxury product.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by 3Flushes » March 6th 2022, 11:59pm

^^^My take was only the bezel is Sallaz finished - and the Worn Around nor Casio site explicitly tout the hand finishing of the bezel, leaving the term to suggest hand finishing to those who know what the process is or to those who care to do their homework. Again, the "traditional" form is done by hand but there are machine processes for black polishing that use glass bead blasting and diamond dust polishing discs that produce a beautiful finish.

If Casio used the traditional form, I have to believe they would trumpet the fact by highlighting the process and it's hand crafted result in their literature. I'm therefore skeptical Casio polishes the bezels by hand, or that all 25 parts of the bezel, some of which are springs and silicone, are polished as stated.

I just don't see how they could possibly scale the production of bezels to meet the quantity required, even at the limit of just one per household - it just doesn't pass the smell test. I do think you are correct in your assumption that they probably are not going to make runs comparable to the standard G's, but I think it's because they know there is a far more limited market for $3500 to $4000 G Shocks.

Which reminds me- given they wouldn't bother polishing the bezel on the black model, it places an even higher than $500 premium on the DLC coating.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 7th 2022, 1:15am

3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 11:59pm
^^^My take was only the bezel is Sallaz finished - and the Worn Around nor Casio site explicitly tout the hand finishing of the bezel, leaving the term to suggest hand finishing to those who know what the process is or to those who care to do their homework. Again, the "traditional" form is done by hand but there are machine processes for black polishing that use glass bead blasting and diamond dust polishing discs that produce a beautiful finish.

If Casio used the traditional form, I have to believe they would trumpet the fact by highlighting the process and it's hand crafted result in their literature. I'm therefore skeptical Casio polishes the bezels by hand, or that all 25 parts of the bezel, some of which are springs and silicone, are polished as stated.

I just don't see how they could possibly scale the production of bezels to meet the quantity required, even at the limit of just one per household - it just doesn't pass the smell test. I do think you are correct in your assumption that they probably are not going to make runs comparable to the standard G's, but I think it's because they know there is a far more limited market for $3500 to $4000 G Shocks.

Which reminds me- given they wouldn't bother polishing the bezel on the black model, it places an even higher than $500 premium on the DLC coating.
Casio refers to the case 'cover' as a bezel, not just the actual 'traditional' bezel. A lot of the press releases refer to master polishing, Sallaz, etc, and the thing costs US$3,500. So I've got no trouble believing they polish all the shiny surfaces by hand. They probably polish the DLC version too as the coating takes on the appearance of the base medium.

Unfortunately they're not available in Australia yet.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by 3Flushes » March 7th 2022, 3:58am

jason_recliner wrote:
March 7th 2022, 1:15am
3Flushes wrote:
March 6th 2022, 11:59pm
^^^My take was only the bezel is Sallaz finished - and the Worn Around nor Casio site explicitly tout the hand finishing of the bezel, leaving the term to suggest hand finishing to those who know what the process is or to those who care to do their homework. Again, the "traditional" form is done by hand but there are machine processes for black polishing that use glass bead blasting and diamond dust polishing discs that produce a beautiful finish.

If Casio used the traditional form, I have to believe they would trumpet the fact by highlighting the process and it's hand crafted result in their literature. I'm therefore skeptical Casio polishes the bezels by hand, or that all 25 parts of the bezel, some of which are springs and silicone, are polished as stated.

I just don't see how they could possibly scale the production of bezels to meet the quantity required, even at the limit of just one per household - it just doesn't pass the smell test. I do think you are correct in your assumption that they probably are not going to make runs comparable to the standard G's, but I think it's because they know there is a far more limited market for $3500 to $4000 G Shocks.

Which reminds me- given they wouldn't bother polishing the bezel on the black model, it places an even higher than $500 premium on the DLC coating.
...A lot of the press releases refer to master polishing, Sallaz, etc...
I have scoured the web and the Casio site and can only find reference to Sallaz polishing - I can't find any reference to master polishing or by hand anywhere- can you direct me or post one? You'd think if they were going to show off the G shaped assembly line in a promotional video that they would showcase such a highly artisanal master craft performed by masters, wouldn't ya? Go figure.
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Re: 5000, Pimped

Post by jason_recliner » March 7th 2022, 4:41am

Pure speculation but I wonder if the polishing is done by a contractor. Would Casio have Sallaz polishing plant in-house? Could it be the same company that makes GS cases? The handset used in The Citizen looks a lot like the classic GS handset. Could that company - can't remember the name - be doing high end manufacturing and finishing for the Big Three?
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