What happened to Seiko Prices?

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What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by jason_recliner » December 25th 2020, 11:37pm

I get that the Aussie dollar is now worth roughly the cost of the alloy from which it is minted, but even so.

Any legitimate reason that prices have gone up so much - e.g. new movements, better finishing, new tech? Or just a case of charging what the market will bear?
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by Watch Noob » December 29th 2020, 9:08am

jason_recliner wrote: ↑
December 25th 2020, 11:37pm
 I get that the Aussie dollar is now worth roughly the cost of the alloy from which it is minted, but even so.

Any legitimate reason that prices have gone up so much - e.g. new movements, better finishing, new tech? Or just a case of charging what the market will bear?
I've noticed the same thing over the past few years. I've avoided Seiko purchases specifically due to the pricing along with their decline in quality. (seems they still can't figure out how to align a bezel).

Their movements haven't exactly been cutting edge technology, (barring the GS line). You can find the same $40 NH35 or NH36 movement in their $1500+ watches that you find in a $250 - $500 micro brand.

The latest 5KX series that replaced the SKX line is decent, but the prices on these are even going up. Maybe someone with some insider knowledge can shed some light on this topic? :shrug:
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by biglove » December 29th 2020, 10:03am

Because they can. Seiko is moving their entire line up-market. Too many LEs and prices have gotten stupid, at least for what I see being offered.

For the money they are asking there are a lot of options out there.

GS dials and movements continue to impress but by and large, Seiko has lost me as a fan.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by 3Flushes » December 29th 2020, 12:11pm

There's nothing in materials or mechanical advances or quality control that would justify the prices.

The factor that stands out to me is that Seiko has become the number one special and limited edition whores in the industry. They knocked Omega off the top of that heap several years ago as they try to realign themselves as a brand wide luxe watch. A recent LE, a tribute to guitarist Robert May, was recently added to the Seiko 5 line at $800 AIR is a case in point.

Seiko prices will continue to go up as long as people keep buying them. Simple as that.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by TemerityB » December 29th 2020, 12:36pm

I just keep thinking about the SKX line - fading dials, falling pips, those always perfect bezels, they won't fix them, not even remotely good time keepers - and I just keep hearing the fan boys fawn all over them. One of my greatest sources of yuks in all my time in this hobby is seeing people fight for them at almost triple the prices on the secondary market. I understand why the world in in the shape it's in when things like that happen. Glad the gaskets work.

As for the current line, I read the prices on the "new and improved" Seiko 5 line and I just about fall off my chair. I mean, imagine how much they'd cost of they managed to give these "diver-style" watches actual screw-down crowns. Unreal.

Grand Seiko? Anytime. Regular Seiko? Four of the last five I've owned have crapped out on me - that's worse than my record with TV watches, for cripe's sake. Not at these prices. Give me Citizen.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by bedlam » December 29th 2020, 5:37pm

TemerityB wrote: ↑
December 29th 2020, 12:36pm
 I just keep thinking about the SKX line - fading dials, falling pips, those always perfect bezels, they won't fix them, not even remotely good time keepers - and I just keep hearing the fan boys fawn all over them. One of my greatest sources of yuks in all my time in this hobby is seeing people fight for them at almost triple the prices on the secondary market. I understand why the world in in the shape it's in when things like that happen. Glad the gaskets work.

As for the current line, I read the prices on the "new and improved" Seiko 5 line and I just about fall off my chair. I mean, imagine how much they'd cost of they managed to give these "diver-style" watches actual screw-down crowns. Unreal.

Grand Seiko? Anytime. Regular Seiko? Four of the last five I've owned have crapped out on me - that's worse than my record with TV watches, for cripe's sake. Not at these prices. Give me Citizen.
I've never had a single Seiko failure or QC problem over 30+ watches. Sounds like you had a dire run.

I don't buy grey market discount watches though.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by TemerityB » December 29th 2020, 9:43pm

bbattle wrote: ↑
December 29th 2020, 8:07pm
3Flushes wrote: ↑
December 29th 2020, 12:11pm

Seiko Rolex Omega Microbrand du jour prices will continue to go up as long as people keep buying them. Simple as that.
Funny how that works.

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Good one. It's like people telling me "Knicks tickets are too expensive" as they sold out like four seasons in a row.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by jason_recliner » December 30th 2020, 1:52am

3Flushes wrote: ↑
December 29th 2020, 12:11pm
Seiko prices will continue to go up as long as people keep buying them. Simple as that.
For sure. I'd be interested to know if their sales have been impacted.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by Watch Noob » December 30th 2020, 11:09am

jason_recliner wrote: ↑
December 30th 2020, 1:52am
3Flushes wrote: ↑
December 29th 2020, 12:11pm
Seiko prices will continue to go up as long as people keep buying them. Simple as that.
For sure. I'd be interested to know if their sales have been impacted.
Like the sales guy who said our quality isn't the best, but you'll never pay more. :mrgreen:

Yea, I'd like to see their 2018-2019 sales in comparison to previous years. Through out 2020 because of the death plague.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by biglove » December 30th 2020, 11:39am

Watch Noob wrote: ↑
December 30th 2020, 11:09am
jason_recliner wrote: ↑
December 30th 2020, 1:52am
3Flushes wrote: ↑
December 29th 2020, 12:11pm
Seiko prices will continue to go up as long as people keep buying them. Simple as that.
For sure. I'd be interested to know if their sales have been impacted.
Like the sales guy who said our quality isn't the best, but you'll never pay more. :mrgreen:

Yea, I'd like to see their 2018-2019 sales in comparison to previous years. Through out 2020 because of the death plague.

So would I. Imagine volume has dropped but profits are either even or up. That presumption is based on their increasing prices that are continuing up and up as well as LE becoming their norm.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by Watch Noob » December 30th 2020, 1:57pm

conjurer wrote: ↑
December 30th 2020, 1:45pm
 Interestingly (or not), Casio's been doing LEs of their Gees for years, and are remarkably popular in Japan, even though they're also remarkably expensive. I suppose this is what Seiko's trying to copy.
That's fine if you can justify the price increases, but I still read about QC issues with Bezels not lining up, crown guards that rake your finger, and still with the hardlex crystals. How fucking hard is it to put in a $20 pc of sapphire? Don't get me started on their shitty rubber straps that take a year to break in if you're lucky enough to live in the Mojave desert. But I still love Seiko dammit.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by bedlam » December 30th 2020, 5:26pm

Watch Noob wrote: ↑
December 30th 2020, 1:57pm
conjurer wrote: ↑
December 30th 2020, 1:45pm
 Interestingly (or not), Casio's been doing LEs of their Gees for years, and are remarkably popular in Japan, even though they're also remarkably expensive. I suppose this is what Seiko's trying to copy.
That's fine if you can justify the price increases, but I still read about QC issues with Bezels not lining up, crown guards that rake your finger, and still with the hardlex crystals. How fucking hard is it to put in a $20 pc of sapphire? Don't get me started on their shitty rubber straps that take a year to break in if you're lucky enough to live in the Mojave desert. But I still love Seiko dammit.
Sapphire isn't the answer to all things. There are sensible functional reasons to go with hardlex over sapphire.

I recall a Seiko engineer responding to why they put sapphire on the 1000m Tuna's and the only reason he provided was there was customer expectation. They put it on not because it was a good idea, but because consumers have a hard on for it.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by Watch Noob » December 30th 2020, 6:52pm

bedlam wrote: ↑
December 30th 2020, 5:26pm
 I recall a Seiko engineer responding to why they put sapphire on the 1000m Tuna's and the only reason he provided was there was customer expectation. They put it on not because it was a good idea, but because consumers have a hard on for it.
Good point Bedlam, and I agree whole heartedly, but with today's standards of actual Divers using a dive computer versus a Dive watch, I was looking for sapphire instead of hardlex. Granted Hardlex has it's place in the community and my SKX007 crystal still looks fantastic, I was just looking for more for the price.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by SynMike » December 31st 2020, 1:38pm

While Seiko has been raising prices, they have also been closing dealers, making their lines more exclusive. I think they see the Swiss luxury brands being successful with fewer dealers and prices that have almost doubled in 10 years. They are playing a bit of the same game. I'm sad that Seiko prices have gone up, but I really don't think their most popular watches under $1K, like Prospex divers and Presage are at all out of line compared to prices of brands like Oris, Tissot, or Hamilton.

Seiko's midline watches at $1500-2000 are a bit confusing to me, there's not enough to set them apart from the under $1K. Some of the midline limited editions are downright ugly IMO.

Is a Grand Seiko worth their current prices? Sure, if you believe that Omega, Rolex are worth their current prices.

The real problem is not Seiko, IMO. I think all watch prices have gone up too far in 10 years. But apparently the market will bear it. There are enough people people willing to spend $5K and $10K on a luxury item, even though the vast majority of those people really don't care that much abut watches in general. The watch is just a part of their luxury lifestyle. And it's something that can go with them and show off everywhere they go.
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Re: What happened to Seiko Prices?

Post by Watch Noob » December 31st 2020, 1:51pm

SynMike wrote: ↑
December 31st 2020, 1:38pm
 While Seiko has been raising prices, they have also been closing dealers, making their lines more exclusive. I think they see the Swiss luxury brands being successful with fewer dealers and prices that have almost doubled in 10 years. They are playing a bit of the same game. I'm sad that Seiko prices have gone up, but I really don't think their most popular watches under $1K, like Prospex divers and Presage are at all out of line compared to prices of brands like Oris, Tissot, or Hamilton.

Seiko's midline watches at $1500-2000 are a bit confusing to me, there's not enough to set them apart from the under $1K. Some of the midline limited editions are downright ugly IMO.

Is a Grand Seiko worth their current prices? Sure, if you believe that Omega, Rolex are worth their current prices.

The real problem is not Seiko, IMO. I think all watch prices have gone up too far in 10 years. But apparently the market will bear it. There are enough people people willing to spend $5K and $10K on a luxury item, even though the vast majority of those people really don't care that much abut watches in general. The watch is just a part of their luxury lifestyle. And it's something that can go with them and show off everywhere they go.

Well that's a much better take on the situation than my drunken ramblings last night Mike. Thanks for your perspective.
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