Hello to all from Silent Sam

CA Crew
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by CA Crew » February 14th 2011, 10:04pm

silent sam wrote:The evidence of my assertion that the Swiss watch industry is largely depending on foreign made parts and componants is found right in the Swiss watch federation's definition of what a Swiss made watch or movement is, i.e. that of which 51% of the VALUE of the parts are made in Switzerland. All it takes to fit the defintion is a few small parts with highly inflated, arbitrary values. A child could figure out this one.


To date, you refuse to document your claims and demand others prove them wrong.

I prove your claim wrong. A child could figure out this one.

Silent Sam: "... the Swiss watch federation's definition of what a Swiss made watch or movement is, i.e. that of which 51% of the VALUE of the parts are made in Switzerland." (Emphasis mine.)

From the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH:
"A Swiss watch movement ... the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly."

The 2 other criteria for a Swiss watch movement:
* it has been assembled in Switzerland;
* it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland

"... a watch is considered to be Swiss if:
* its movement is Swiss;
* its movement is cased up in Switzerland;
* and the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland."

http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php

You're on your own with this nonsense:
All it takes to fit the defintion is a few small parts with highly inflated, arbitrary values.

If you want to quit acting as a child who couldn't figure out even this one, you will
1. develop a hypothesis
2. research
3. find credible evidence for your hypothesis, if it exists
4. post your hypothesis and your credible evidence, if you find it, including relevant links and other documentation that can be confirmed by the reader
5. be taken more seriously by members of WatchLords eventually

You stop at #1, declaring imperiously that if others won't do your research for you, they must accept your unsubstantiated claims.

One plane of reality on which your behavior makes sense: You know the type response your remarks bring, and you seek it consciously, willingly, repeatedly and to the exclusion of any other type interaction.
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by Guest » February 17th 2011, 7:25am

I have to laugh when I read some of the responses to the information I've posted. Some of the responses to the responses are even funnier. CA's reprint of a seventh grade science project instructions page is a hoot. Are you serious? The subject at hand is not that deep. We are discussing market generated hype and the Swiss watch value myth. We are not discussing the origins of the universe or the dispute whether dinosaurs were endothermic or ectothermic. That someone is applauding the post as relative and succinct...well I just fell out. Then there's the poor bozo who thinks I'm upset. Wow. Nope. I'm just enjoying myself. Image

However such hardheaded tom foolery is typical. We will see it anytime valid evidence is offered which threatens a widely held but unfounded belief--a beloved myth if you will. This is especially true whenever money and/or prestige is involved. Folks are bound to become defensive and upset. After all, who wants to admit to themselves or anyone that they've been had. Even more so, who wants their porky little piggy bank undermined. But the sad fact remains. If anyone has spent much over a couple or three hundred bucks for a typical mass produced Swiss stainless steel automatic watch, then they've paid too much. Anything much over $100 or so for a quartz watch of any type is also just as fiscally reckless. Folks have been buying into the myth for quite a while, so it is understandable.

Even so, the Swiss have not actually lied to anyone. No need. All the Swiss have ever needed to do to create the myth is to offer up just enough factual information to get the ball rolling. They've also managed to get some of their highly overpriced watches on the wrists of a handful of international celebrities. Human nature and the typical aftermarket promotional BS from the sales types has done all the rest. It's been going on ever since the advent of mass media in the late 1950s. So the myth has become well entrenched--almost a religion if you will, at least to a few folks.

I've no quams when anyone nails any of Invicta's spokespeople to the wall for slinging the BS high and wide. I think it's fun to watch. I enjoy doing it myself. However, I've come to realize that Invicta's people have simply taken the matter to what we should have been expecting all along, an absurd end to an absurd belief. In the words of Oscar Wilde, "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing". Invicta's promotional staff has certainly succeeded. In so doing, they have created enough doubt to start some folks thinking. I doubt this has been their intention, but the end result will be the same. The myth is being destroyed. It does not cost that much to manufacture a typical watch today. This is especially true when Asian labor is doing it for you. Since the 7.6 million or so Swiss obviously do not have the domestic man power to make 24 million watches on their own and to man all the other professions and jobs which drive their economy and help run the country (think about this just a little), then somebody has obviously been helping them and has been for some time now.

P T Barnum said it best back in the 19th Century; "There's a sucker born every minute". How true. Nothing's changed. It would seem humans love to be hornswaggled. They love to bitch about it too. And so it goes. Image
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by Datsun240Z71 » February 17th 2011, 7:44am

Before I change my mind and label you completely full of crap and totally condescending as well, would you care to define more precisely what these statements mean exactly in reference to particular brands, etc. from your seemingly omnipotent perspective. I'm trying to see if you're calling me, and I'm sure many others here, stupid, or fiscally reckless (if you will), although how I (we) spend our money should not really concern you.

"If anyone has spent much over a couple or three hundred bucks for a typical mass produced Swiss stainless steel automatic watch, then they've paid too much. Anything much over $100 or so for a quartz watch of any type is also just as fiscally reckless."
Last edited by Anonymous on February 17th 2011, 8:07am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by foghorn » February 17th 2011, 7:50am

Forget it Randy-he's already labeled himself.
Not only does he not know the difference between information and opinion but he can't spell qualms or tomfoolery. He's a Wikipediac Savant.
Last edited by Anonymous on February 17th 2011, 7:54am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by koimaster » February 17th 2011, 8:05am

Aside from preaching to WIS who have been learning about watches for years, what else have you posted to support any of your claims?



No evidence, not even a shred
Silentsam, put this topic to bed.
You offer no facts, not even just one
You post grand comments and off you run.
When you have facts to back what you say
Maybe then the WIS will come out and play.
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by eddiea » February 17th 2011, 8:18am

koimaster wrote:Aside from preaching to WIS who have been learning about watches for years, what else have you posted to support any of your claims?

To his credit.....One failed attempt to lecture the wrong crowd, one failed attempt to pee on the wrong tree.....(so far)
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andrema

Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by andrema » February 17th 2011, 8:24am

eddiea wrote:
koimaster wrote:Aside from preaching to WIS who have been learning about watches for years, what else have you posted to support any of your claims?

To his credit.....One failed attempt to lecture the wrong crowd, one failed attempt to pee on the wrong tree.....(so far)
Be patient students....Professor Sam will be back with our next lesson soon.

Wikipedia searches take time...come on people, Rome wasn't built in a day...If it were, it would be yellow on the map and be called the Imperious Empire or something silly like that. Either way, the Colleseum would have definitely been reduced to rubble at this point!
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Watch Noob

Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by Watch Noob » February 17th 2011, 8:54am

sorry, I got bored or lost focus in the first paragraph. Long drawn out posts that say nothing tend to lose my attention. I'm a bullet point type of person. Please persent me with a PowerPoint next go round.

thanks
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by CA Crew » February 19th 2011, 1:26am

I met your criteria - accept your claims or prove them wrong. You have yet to respond to my proof that one of your incorrect statements-presented-as-fact is wrong. Is there a particular reason you're not continuing the discussion?

Silent Sam: ... the Swiss watch federation's definition of what a Swiss made watch or movement is, i.e. that of which 51% of the VALUE of the parts are made in Switzerland.
(Emphasis mine.)

From the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH:
"A Swiss watch movement ... the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly."
http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php

Behold the link to the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH. You pontificate as if unaware such phenomena exist. Information for you and others innocent of their utility: Links connect one with sources that document the writer's statements. Links or other documentation are essential in effective communication, esp. when claims may be controversial, or facts are not well-known to everyone in the audience.

You might check them out at some point. Using them appropriately might help you become accepted on this forum.* No guarantees, given the substantial amount of fact- and link-free opinions you try to pass off here as truths in your condescending, arrogant, patronizing, I-know-more-than-you-do-so-how-dare-you-disagree-with-or-dismiss-me manner, now boringly predictable.

In your most recent post, you use the same false arguments as before, thus strengthening my theory:

[color=indigo]One plane of reality on which your behavior makes sense: You know the type response your remarks bring, and you seek it consciously, willingly, repeatedly and to the exclusion of any other type interaction.[/color]

To engage in authentic conversation by commenting on my proving you wrong could mean disproving my theory (notice I don't claim theory as fact) by abandoning your customary stance.**

* However, this doesn't appear to be your goal.

** Other theories may explain your behavior.
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by Guest » February 19th 2011, 8:50am

Ya know, you are dead on. I think this site has been taken over by fear, bigotry, avarice, and the hate it all generates. There's no point in trying to discuss ideas or share opinions with folks who have too much money invested in an obviously overinflated market like Swiss made watches. These folks are being threatened and they are responding in the only way they can--with angery denials of the obvious truth.

As for trolls, the whole site is infested. These creatures are being used as a bulkwark against reality. I should have realized it as soon as the angry responses to my ideas started flying in.

If we swim with greedy fools and their pet trolls, then we'll get troll shit on us and smell like one.
I'm gonna shower off. I think I'm done here. No point in trying to discuss an idea like this in a place like this. It's too much of a threat to the entrenched vested interests. Believe what you want to. The time will come when the reality about where the vast majority of parts for today's mass produced Swiss watches are really being made. I doubt it will ever be here though.
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by foghorn » February 19th 2011, 10:04am

silent sam wrote: I think I'm done here.

Thank freakin' God!!
No point in trying to discuss an idea like this in a place like this. It's too much of a threat to the entrenched vested interests.
You truly are either a clueless fool,or a run of the mill troll
Believe what you want to.
You are too generous-Thank You
The time will come when the reality about where the vast majority of parts for today's mass produced Swiss watches are really being made. I doubt it will ever be here though.
It has already been made intuitively obvious to even the most casual observers that most members here have forgotten more about the world of horology than your sieve-like brain will ever retain.




You have a good life now Sammy.
Buh-Bye.
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Re: Hello to all from Silent Sam

Post by dude » February 19th 2011, 2:12pm

Bigjimzlll wrote:I'll bet a dollar he ain't done...


. . . maybe here, but the buzz will continue elsewhere for sure.

Sam seems to have a strong sense of needing to express himself. Just fell flat here. This is a tough room to work, a lot of AlphaDogs here.
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