Watchlords

Make up your minds on this one.



http://blog.breitlingsource.com/2009/12/03/technica-1902-and-the-swiss-made-sham/


It wasn’t that long ago that when you purchased a New Swiss Made automatic Watch, you were guaranteed at least an ETA 2824 movement in it. While the ETA 2824 movement is by no means a rare or exciting automatic movement, it is reliable and can be very accurate in it’s highest level of finish. The ETA 2824 is used by a very large number of companies including Breitling, Hamilton, Oris, Omega, Tudor, Eterna, Tag Heuer and many many others including most of the German Brands

"Swiss Made", as a dichotomous nomenclature, is sort of a sham for a great many labels. There are degrees of "Swissness" in "Swiss Made" across many brands.

I forget the brand (it's a high-end Swiss boutique brand, IIRC) but someone was taking a Chinese ebauche, refinishing it as their own and calling it "Swiss" in pieces selling for 10k-15k.

Technically, while such practices may be lawful, they can be deceptive, especially if you don't do the research.

Invicta just seems to do it consistently and to a degree that others don't.
Combine that with the hyperbole inherent in "TV sales" and mostlycrappy™ CS and ... well...

What is with all the negative stuff. I buy a watch if it makes me feel warm and tingly down there, I don't care where its made. If you don't like it don't buy it, if you do, well whoopty doo.

Unless there is concrete proof anyone posting in this thread is a TROLL. Noob please close this thread down.








Seriously though, I saw somewhere where the CL888 is essentially a Chinese movement made "Swiss" no?

iwasbanned wrote:

Seriously though, I saw somewhere where the CL888 is essentially a Chinese movement made "Swiss" no?

Yes, it's a re-finished Seagull ST-16 (which is already a very good movement).

Here's an excellent side-by-side, watchmaker's teardown between a CL888 and ST-16 on WUS.
He's basically got good things to say about both movements: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=312588

[quote="iwasbanned"]What is with all the negative stuff. I buy a watch if it makes me feel warm and tingly down there, I don't care where its made. If you don't like it don't buy it, if you do, well whoopty doo.





Unless there is concrete proof anyone posting in this thread is a TROLL. Noob please close this thread down.

:nosethumb:








Seriously though, I saw somewhere where the CL888 is essentially a Chinese movement made "Swiss" no?



Big debate on that subject.[/quote]

http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/index.php?title=Swiss_Made

http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/index.php?title=Claro-Semag

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/claro-semag-cl-888-versus-sea-gull-st16-tear-down-312588.html

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/swiss-embarassment-chinese-watch-industry-wiki-335506.html

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f71/so-lets-settle-debate-claro-semag-888-movement-299353-4.html

Yes there is a HUGE debate about about the Claro/Semag. One which I will not enter in again. If Gigfy, and Lysander say it's true, it must be right?

BTW, Oris three hands now use Sellita.

[quote="blorp["]I forget the brand (it's a high-end Swiss boutique brand, IIRC) but someone was taking a Chinese ebauche, refinishing it as their own and calling it "Swiss" in pieces selling for 10k-15k.
quote] Croton?

Aqua Homer wrote:Yes there is a HUGE debate about about the Claro/Semag. One which I will not enter in again. If Gigfy, and Lysander say it's true, it must be right?

BTW, Oris three hands now use Sellita.

''


A never ending debate that Cl888 topic. Still looking for your oris? Have you tried using the real time sales tool in the sales forum?

Mark2"][quote="blorp[ wrote:I forget the brand (it's a high-end Swiss boutique brand, IIRC) but someone was taking a Chinese ebauche, refinishing it as their own and calling it "Swiss" in pieces selling for 10k-15k.
quote] Croton?

LOL. :D

It was Cecil Purnell. It's in one of Koi's links.

blorp["][quote="Mark2 wrote:

blorp[ wrote:I forget the brand (it's a high-end Swiss boutique brand, IIRC) but someone was taking a Chinese ebauche, refinishing it as their own and calling it "Swiss" in pieces selling for 10k-15k.
quote] Croton?

LOL. :D

It was Cecil Purnell. It's in one of Koi's links.

Yeah, and it was a tourbillion if I remember correctly. They buy a Chinese designed and manufactured tourbillion, send to a company in Switzerland for some tweeks, and voila - Cecil Purnell Swiss Made Tourbillion. Total scam IMO.

Who the fuck is Cecil Purnell anyway? The name is more in line with an East Texas redneck than some haute Swiss watch designer.

I'd never buy a watch with "Cecil" in the brand name LOL! I went to school with a couple of whack jobs named Cecil - one of them is currently serving time in a Texas Department of Corrections facility.


D

Aqua Homer wrote:Yes there is a HUGE debate about about the Claro/Semag. One which I will not enter in again. If Gigfy, and Lysander say it's true, it must be right?

BTW, Oris three hands now use Sellita.

Yup, mine has an sw200. Luckily its not an Invicta so I know it won't crap out on me.

any movement Oris uses (ETA or Sellita) is not left stock. Oris reworks it to their standards. You can be sure the Sellita used in the Oris is better than the ones used in shitvicta

yup, its an oris 733. http://www.oris.ch/oris/mouvements.aspx?ln=en&id_movement=10

iwasbanned wrote:yup, its an oris 733. http://www.oris.ch/oris/mouvements.aspx?ln=en&id_movement=10

Like Mark said ...anything made by Oris is in different league that Invicta...fresh movements, a true direct relantionship with ETA/Sellitas, excellent workmanship..
Nice Oris BTW

Thanks. I really like it. Its big, but because its titanium, its super light.

Here's the difference between an actual, respected watch company such as Oris and an opportunistic, fly-by-night watch mill called IWG:

When you pick up an Oris, beforehand you can just log on to their website and find out what movement is in every watch - and if you don't know the movement, it's all explained there as well. Transparent, informative, and with unerring quality, Oris has made lots of fans just by selling good watches with quality movements (I can't recall their in-house autos having many problems), and is looked upon by most watch fans as a good brand. That goes double for any decent jeweler, who can explain their watches by rote from memory.

As we've all learned this year particularly, the Technica Swiss Ebauches thing is only one of so many sold-as-what-they're-not stories from IWG that they've become a complete laughing stock, even though their bottom feeder TV hucksters consider units sold to be the only measure of success that counts. And, as proven even more often than their shoddy movement claims, their CS is almost impossibly terrible, their quality a joke.

Yeah, I know, what IWG does is "within the boundaries of the law." But ask yourself this: Would you rather deal with a real watch company that clearly and truthfully has prestige and openly tells you where and how their watches are made, or would you rather buy auto watches from TV monkeys who grunt "ooh, this good"? And that feature movements that aren't even the lowest standard of quality watchmaking?

And yet people still can't figure out that when you walk into a real retail watch store or, say, Tourneau, with a "Swiss Made" SAN III on, nobody wants to help you or even get near you. That's because those real watch people are way too smart to deal with TV watch buyers who don't know what they are doing; it's not worth the time or aggravation to explain why a real $1,000 watch is actually worth $1,000.

TemerityB wrote:Here's the difference between an actual, respected watch company such as Oris and an opportunistic, fly-by-night watch mill called IWG:

When you pick up an Oris, beforehand you can just log on to their website and find out what movement is in every watch - and if you don't know the movement, it's all explained there as well. Transparent, informative, and with unerring quality, Oris has made lots of fans just by selling good watches with quality movements (I can't recall their in-house autos having many problems), and is looked upon by most watch fans as a good brand. That goes double for any decent jeweler, who can explain their watches by rote from memory.

As we've all learned this year particularly, the Technica Swiss Ebauches thing is only one of so many sold-as-what-they're-not stories from IWG that they've become a complete laughing stock, even though their bottom feeder TV hucksters consider units sold to be the only measure of success that counts. And, as proven even more often than their shoddy movement claims, their CS is almost impossibly terrible, their quality a joke.

Yeah, I know, what IWG does is "within the boundaries of the law." But ask yourself this: Would you rather deal with a real watch company that clearly and truthfully has prestige and openly tells you where and how their watches are made, or would you rather buy auto watches from TV monkeys who grunt "ooh, this good"? And that feature movements that aren't even the lowest standard of quality watchmaking?

And yet people still can't figure out that when you walk into a real retail watch store or, say, Tourneau, with a "Swiss Made" SAN III on, nobody wants to help you or even get near you. That's because those real watch people are way too smart to deal with TV watch buyers who don't know what they are doing; it's not worth the time or aggravation to explain why a real $1,000 watch is actually worth $1,000.

You hit the nail on the head.
Case closed!!

Not sure what the current love affair is with Oris. I will admit that I have fallen for them again, but having owned a TT1 in 2006, I will say that back then at least, their movements were far from "in house" or "re-worked". Standard grade ETA's with a red rotor are neither in house or re-worked.

Aqua Homer wrote:Not sure what the current love affair is with Oris. I will admit that I have fallen for them again, but having owned a TT1 in 2006, I will say that back then at least, their movements were far from "in house" or "re-worked". Standard grade ETA's with a red rotor are neither in house or re-worked.

Not in house for sure (not yet) but my Diver Small Seconds Date have a "re-worked" 2836-2 AKA as Oris 643... I think the extend of the so called "re-work" is the seconds hand relocation, unknown to me if anything else has been massaged on the movement but accuracy is just outstanding for a non COSC movement, Oris claim, they developed the 643 based on the ETA ebauche.

My worldtimer and BC4 have an oris 690. Oris claims to add additional functionality. I would think this one is as close to re-working a movement to call it your own? Maybe?


http://www.oris.ch/services/faq.aspx?ln=en&sel=3&id_faq=23

Basically, that's what I meant by "in-house," you guys pegged it. Just read the Oris website and you'll see how they describe their movements in that regard. I always assumed that many Oris' were re-worked ETAs. Mine work wonderfully, regardless of their designations.

Yeah, I had one of those too. My first and last skelly, donated to Goodwill a couple years ago. I recall the WG flap over the use of the word Swiss in the name of the admittedly, ahem...Far East company Technica Swiss Ebauches.

jaw wrote:Yeah, I had one of those too. My first and last skelly, donated to Goodwill a couple years ago. I recall the WG flap over the use of the word Swiss in the name of the admittedly, ahem...Far East company Technica Swiss Ebauches.

If I saw these at Goodwill I'd buy them.

Response to the blog:

DAVID Says:
March 19th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
Thanks for the imformation in your post I had no ideal, of what was going on , will make a big difference, on any of my future purchases

It sounds like Tz talking in Geek Speak!