Name versus Price

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Name versus Price

Post by Watch Noob » February 6th 2010, 7:08pm

Who else looks at Watch Forum Sales on various Sites and thinks that the Brand name should be in a certain price range? I was looking at some Seiko's tonight for sale on another forum and can't think about spending $1500 on a Seiko. Not that I don't love Seiko, but let's face facts, it isn't a brand that is recognized at that price range.

discuss....
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by koimaster » February 6th 2010, 7:18pm

I agree with that. But with that caveat, the Credor is a high end wactch made by Seiko.

http://www.timezone.com/library/rdnotebook/200607314159

Citizen also makes a high end watch, the citizen campanola which as does the Credor, rival the top Swiss & German brands. In fact, Japan was not invited to the accuracy competition Chronometrie 2009. Why? Perhaps because in the 60's and 70's they won there.

Do japanese watches have snob appeal? I do not think the general public would think so and I think many watch collectors would agree. For those of us who research a bit more when spending our hard earned dollers, I think it is not snob appeal but the satisfaction of knowing we purchased a superb watch for a fraction of what a Swiss or German made one would cost.
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Speake-Marin, Glashütte Original, Patek Phillippe, A.Lange & Söhne, Vacheron Constantin are considered to be examples of higher end watches. Most start at about $15k and go up from there. They are for the most part watches for those who have a lot of free money laying around. Some very smart people I know purchase the vintage models which are bargains right now or haunt the watch forums looking for deals.

To respond to your question about what I define as one, anything that makes you think hard about spending money on it. If you have to think hard about spending $2k on a watch, for that person it is a higher end watch.

I define snob appeal as a watch someone has to own to show their staus in life.I suppose the logic is if you can afford a $20k watch you are better than the person that can only afford the $200 watch. Not my personal way of being but there are some of my clients who are like that.

Quality of manufacture, or performance is subjective. Most Swiss Made watches today have components made in Asia and elswhere. Companies such as Invicta, Doxa and others barely meet "swiss made" standards in the watches they claim are Swiss Made and they also distort their history. Companies such as Stowa & Sothis (german) or Rolex and Blancpain do not use asian components. Does this make them better? It depends on what you define as better.

Many Chinese Tourbillion watches that cost about $1500 are as reliable as a Swiss Made Tourbillion costing $30K. Seiko is at least the equal to most Swiss watch companies as far as quality and performance.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Watch Noob » February 7th 2010, 6:42am

Thanks for the post Alain and your thoughts. I also learned something new, I had not heard of Credor before. Very cool looking watches. Not my style, but none the less a great looking watch. You hit the nail on the head when you said, if it makes you think long and hard it's probably high end to that person.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by koimaster » February 7th 2010, 8:40am

Watch Noob wrote:Thanks for the post Alain and your thoughts. I also learned something new, I had not heard of Credor before. Very cool looking watches. Not my style, but none the less a great looking watch. You hit the nail on the head when you said, if it makes you think long and hard it's probably high end to that person.




Credor are a very nice line, about $3k and up. Not large, about 38mm. More of a line directed to the luxury Asian market. I was reading a post recently about people buying Seiko and the poster was claiming that Invicta was helping design them.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Guest » February 9th 2010, 8:20pm

Depends really, I must say that the Seiko spring drive movement was and is one of the most unique watch movement in a long long time. The sweep of the second hand alone is crazy cool, it's smooth as butta!! I will however admit the bracelet and clasp come up a bit short. Hmmm, reminds me of Rolex a bit...LOL

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Re: Name versus Price

Post by koimaster » February 9th 2010, 8:36pm

DonBattles wrote:Depend really, I must say that the Seiko spring drive movement was and is one of the most unique watch movement in a long long time. The sweep of the second hand alone is crazy cool, it's smooth as butta!! I will however admit the bracelet and clasp some up a bit short. Hmmm, reminds me of Rolex a bit...LOL

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Comparison wise, how are they Don?
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Guest » February 9th 2010, 8:44pm

I think the long term reliability has yet to be determined. But for all out accuracy it's dead nuts on (for a non quartz movement), I've only checked one but only gained two seconds over a 7 day period.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by conjurer » December 16th 2010, 8:20pm

I agree about the Credor line (which I have never seen personally; I believe they are JDM only.) What I've heard about them is that Seiko sent their finest watchmakers to Switzerland (unlike Invicta's Reserve WMs) to learn all they could about Swiss high-horology. When they got back--several years later--Seiko brass told them to produce a line of watches that would out-Swiss the Swiss.

The same goes for Seiko Spring Drive, which is utterly cool.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Guest » December 16th 2010, 9:27pm

I had SEIKO spring drive GMT watch, very nice and well made. I try to stick to SWISS watches that I know its made in SWISS and have real factories. I try to diversify My collection , tried SEIKO SD, their hi end hand assembled Kinetic , it did not sing to me other than knowing its the latest watch movements coming out of Japan. People buy watches either based on future "VALUE" or what sings to them....example would be owning same brand of watches....

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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Falstaff » December 17th 2010, 7:23am

Definitely have to be "in the know" to be willing to pop multi-k $$$$ on a Seiko - unless of course they (regrettably) obtain celebrity endorsements (preferably a beautiful, promiscuous reality show starlet, amoral sports hero or freshly rehabbed male actor). Regardless though, Credor line is certainly on my list.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Watch Noob » December 17th 2010, 8:39am

Resurected from the dead I see.

I still maintain my stance. I love Seiko and have purchased a Sawtooth to add to my Seiko collection since this was written. However, I still maintain $1500 is some serious coin for a Seiko. Is it worth the money? I'm sure it is, but the Brand recognition in me is telling me otherwise.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Hawk » December 17th 2010, 10:18am

Cool. Zombie thread.

I'm another that's used to expecting a certain price range to be associated with specific brands.

But the occasional 8,000.00 Grand Seiko, 5,000.00 Royal Orient and the like are starting to "tenderize" that attitude.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Watch Noob » December 17th 2010, 11:32am

Let's look at it from a different perspective. I doubt many of your closest friends are WIS's. Therefore, if you were wearing a $1500+ Seiko and they said, "Hey nice watch, how much did you pay for it?" You say, "$1500", they say "wow, who makes it?" You say "Seiko". They look at you like your a Tard.
Now that's from the average Joe. Most average's Joes equated Seiko, Citizen, etc. in the nice watch for $200-$300 range, certainly not $1500+.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by eddiea » December 17th 2010, 11:39am

Watch Noob wrote:Resurected from the dead I see.

I still maintain my stance. I love Seiko and have purchased a Sawtooth to add to my Seiko collection since this was written. However, I still maintain $1500 is some serious coin for a Seiko. Is it worth the money? I'm sure it is, but the Brand recognition in me is telling me otherwise.


More than worth the money... personally, I will take a 300MM over a Rolex Sub any day and I will dare to say, that the 8L35 movement in the Seiko is at least as high end as the Rolex 3135..as far as brand recognition goes, well to me that is an "others" perception issue and at the end of the day, I care about my perception and of course the perception of those in the know, sadly a great porcentage (if not all) of the non WIS, general public out there, knows squat about watches.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by TemerityB » December 17th 2010, 11:57am

I really agree with Conjurer - the Spring Drive Seikos are just beyond cool. And worth every penny.

I can see the point about dropping a lot of coin on a Seiko, but I think it's really up to the watch fancier what's the best bang for his personal buck. Any time it's a grand or more (crap, when it's $350 or more), I hem and haw and debate my choice, too. In all, high-end Seikos are really fine watches - but I can certainly see your point to be sure. If if doesn't feel right, don't do it, Noob. As koi noted, if you catch the bug you can scour the sites for vintage or gray deals as well.
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by Watch Noob » December 17th 2010, 12:30pm

Maybe I'm more concerned with appearances and perception than quality, ingenuity and craftmanship. I'd rather people recognize my $2000 Omega Planet Ocean immediately than have to wonder what my Seiko Spring Drive is. Am I a WIS Poser? Image
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Re: Name versus Price

Post by eddiea » December 17th 2010, 2:07pm

Watch Noob wrote:Maybe I'm more concerned with appearances and perception than quality, ingenuity and craftmanship. I'd rather people recognize my $2000 Omega Planet Ocean immediately than have to wonder what my Seiko Spring Drive is. Am I a WIS Poser? Image


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Re: Name versus Price

Post by foghorn » December 17th 2010, 2:38pm

Watch Noob wrote:Maybe I'm more concerned with appearances and perception than quality, ingenuity and craftmanship. I'd rather people recognize my $2000 Omega Planet Ocean immediately than have to wonder what my Seiko Spring Drive is. Am I a WIS Poser? Image



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