15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by AlbertaTime » October 23rd 2023, 8:21pm

I'm with you on this, Hawk. My own first hand experience flies directly counter to "Asians generally don't care about animals."
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by jason_recliner » October 24th 2023, 2:53am

Hawk wrote:
October 23rd 2023, 10:05am
jason_recliner wrote:
October 19th 2023, 3:49pm
It was easy to find in Hanoi when I was there but that was a long time ago. I wouldn't go looking for it, but might try it if it happened to be on the menu somewhere, out of curiosity. Unfortunately it almost certainly is not ethically farmed - Asians generally don't care about animals. For that reason (and still some queasiness) not sure I'd want to support the industry by ordering some.
I remain optimistic that we'll meet up one day for some pints even if Alex Jones delays resolution on wagers interminably.

If that happens I would strongly suggest you keep the highlighted portion between us should my wife be in attendance. She still supports a dog rescue in Sukhothai and her sister rescues a more limited quantity in Nakhon Si Thammarat. In fact I can't think of a single Asian that I'm acquainted with that wouldn't bristle when hearing that. And most of the Asians of my acquaintance are in, well, Asia. It's not like they picked it up from Yankee, Canadian or Ozian culture.

It'd probably be unfair to base a stereotype, in the case of us Yanks, on Qyntel Woods and / or Michael Vicks. Apocryphal tales notwithstanding most well-adjusted humans revile animal cruelty. Food sourcing is one thing, torture is quite another.
Based on a small sample of my ex-wife, our friends and in-laws, maybe a few Asians I know over here. No interest in spending more $$$ on free-range eggs or chicken except for my ex. Not one of them (but happy to spend $$$ on crap from Gucci, LV, etc, etc). Their dogs were for guarding the house, they were not family members.

Seafloor bereft of one single sea cucmber as soon as the marine park boundary (rope with buoys) was crossed - literally nothing but sand. Illegal Indo fishing in our waters, no concern for size, species, conservation. Almost total deforestation of Borneo. Ignoring abalone catch limits and prescribed catch days here in Perth. Shitty Asian (private?) zoos. Serving live lobsters in Bali. Probably other stuff if I can be bothered to remember. Am I saying literally every single Asian on planet earth doesn't give a fuck about literally every single animal? No. But generally, they don't give a fuck about animals the way many Australians do.
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by Hawk » October 24th 2023, 10:37am

And here I thought your ex-wife was Australian.

Oddly enough the southern Thai monkeys are treated much like pets bordering on family members. Something that PETA continues to get wrong despite years of evidence to the contrary. And it's not just PETA - we've got an entire outrage ecosystem built around coconut harvesting. Around here the best place to get free range chickens remains the Asian supermarkets.

Live lobsters suggesting cruelty would not have occurred to me - perhaps because it's common practice in America. Regional differences perhaps? We wouldn't want to shut down an entire portion of the Maine economy. Also, if you've ever eaten raw oysters they were alive - a fact that greatly chagrined a co-worker. We really don't think about dropping a live lobster into boiling water much over here - wonder why that is?

Nevertheless, the advice remains: stating that Asians don't care about animals generally in front of my wife risks us both eating our dinner through a straw.

Or maybe Australians care *more* than typical westerners? The revelation on the live lobsters might be cause for some deliberation on that possibility.
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by jason_recliner » October 24th 2023, 2:58pm

Hawk wrote:
October 24th 2023, 10:37am
And here I thought your ex-wife was Australian.

Oddly enough the southern Thai monkeys are treated much like pets bordering on family members. Something that PETA continues to get wrong despite years of evidence to the contrary. And it's not just PETA - we've got an entire outrage ecosystem built around coconut harvesting. Around here the best place to get free range chickens remains the Asian supermarkets.

Live lobsters suggesting cruelty would not have occurred to me - perhaps because it's common practice in America. Regional differences perhaps? We wouldn't want to shut down an entire portion of the Maine economy. Also, if you've ever eaten raw oysters they were alive - a fact that greatly chagrined a co-worker. We really don't think about dropping a live lobster into boiling water much over here - wonder why that is?

Nevertheless, the advice remains: stating that Asians don't care about animals generally in front of my wife risks us both eating our dinner through a straw.

Or maybe Australians care *more* than typical westerners? The revelation on the live lobsters might be cause for some deliberation on that possibility.
Shocked that eating live lobster is popular in Maine - that's pathetic. The difference with an oyster is that you kill and eat it in one go. Every animal dies before/when you eat it - it's the duration and pain of the death that is IMO unethical and inhumane (Asians and I guess some Americans may disagree).
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by Hawk » October 24th 2023, 6:19pm

It’s common in Maine including small roadside stands. But it’s reasonably common across the entire US. Seafood restaurants routinely keep an aquarium type thing where customers can pick out their particular lobster.

And of course they’re dumped into boiling water. I can’t imagine that the customers have any delusions about their crustacean being gently euthanized. But, subject to correction by the other lords, I doubt anyone gives it a second thought.

It hadn’t actually been my intention to find an example of regional differences but I do find it fascinating. Both that we take it for granted while you include it as animal torture.

Nevertheless, one thing for damn certain, the practice isn’t associated with any ethnic group here. It’s basically all of us.
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by jason_recliner » October 24th 2023, 6:45pm

Hawk wrote:
October 24th 2023, 6:19pm
It’s common in Maine including small roadside stands. But it’s reasonably common across the entire US. Seafood restaurants routinely keep an aquarium type thing where customers can pick out their particular lobster.

And of course they’re dumped into boiling water. I can’t imagine that the customers have any delusions about their crustacean being gently euthanized. But, subject to correction by the other lords, I doubt anyone gives it a second thought.

It hadn’t actually been my intention to find an example of regional differences but I do find it fascinating. Both that we take it for granted while you include it as animal torture.

Nevertheless, one thing for damn certain, the practice isn’t associated with any ethnic group here. It’s basically all of us.
I am referring to the process of butchering and eating a lobster while it is alive. Slitting down the inside of the carapace and cutting spasming chunks of flesh from it and eating the spasming flesh, in a way that prolongs the life of the lobster so as much of the flesh can be removed as possible while it is still alive. Sounds like you're referring to cooking lobsters - we do that! (they are usually frozen first, then thawed, but cooking a live lobster occurs where people have them fresh from the water, sure)
Last edited by jason_recliner on October 24th 2023, 7:07pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by smellody » October 24th 2023, 6:55pm

jason_recliner wrote:
October 24th 2023, 6:45pm
Hawk wrote:
October 24th 2023, 6:19pm
It’s common in Maine including small roadside stands. But it’s reasonably common across the entire US. Seafood restaurants routinely keep an aquarium type thing where customers can pick out their particular lobster.

And of course they’re dumped into boiling water. I can’t imagine that the customers have any delusions about their crustacean being gently euthanized. But, subject to correction by the other lords, I doubt anyone gives it a second thought.

It hadn’t actually been my intention to find an example of regional differences but I do find it fascinating. Both that we take it for granted while you include it as animal torture.

Nevertheless, one thing for damn certain, the practice isn’t associated with any ethnic group here. It’s basically all of us.
I am referring to the process of butchering and eating a lobster while it is alive. Slitting down the inside of the carapce and cutting spasming chuncks of flesh from it and eating the spasming flesh, in a way that prolongs the life of the lobster so as much of the flesh can be removed while it is still alive. Sounds like you're refering to cooking lobsters - we do that! (they are usually frozen first, then thawed, but cooking a live lobster occurs where people have them fresh from the water, sure)
I've regularly participated in ritual live lobster 🦞 boiling many times while in Maine.

Torturing dawgs then eating them, NO WAY. I would go cannibal on any creep I saw doing that.

I don't see mushrooms and lobsters (essentially large water scorpions) are not on the same evolutionary level as I see it.

A bolt to the brain 🧠 of a cow 🐄 or the execution of the anus of a sheep 🐑 is one time instantaneous torture. Luckily, it is delicious.

I'm not going to comment on raising canine as protein and ethically slaughtering them.

I remember going away to change management training by Prosci in Colorado. There were lots of Hal Burton employees there, but the most interesting other "student" was a Canadian working in local government who had been pied piper that led sheep through processing. He did that by calling them and they would follow him to slaughter.
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by smellody » October 24th 2023, 7:43pm

smellody wrote:
October 24th 2023, 6:55pm
jason_recliner wrote:
October 24th 2023, 6:45pm
Hawk wrote:
October 24th 2023, 6:19pm
It’s common in Maine including small roadside stands. But it’s reasonably common across the entire US. Seafood restaurants routinely keep an aquarium type thing where customers can pick out their particular lobster.

And of course they’re dumped into boiling water. I can’t imagine that the customers have any delusions about their crustacean being gently euthanized. But, subject to correction by the other lords, I doubt anyone gives it a second thought.

It hadn’t actually been my intention to find an example of regional differences but I do find it fascinating. Both that we take it for granted while you include it as animal torture.

Nevertheless, one thing for damn certain, the practice isn’t associated with any ethnic group here. It’s basically all of us.
I am referring to the process of butchering and eating a lobster while it is alive. Slitting down the inside of the carapce and cutting spasming chuncks of flesh from it and eating the spasming flesh, in a way that prolongs the life of the lobster so as much of the flesh can be removed while it is still alive. Sounds like you're refering to cooking lobsters - we do that! (they are usually frozen first, then thawed, but cooking a live lobster occurs where people have them fresh from the water, sure)
I've regularly participated in ritual live lobster 🦞 boiling many times while in Maine.

Torturing dawgs then eating them, NO WAY. I would go cannibal on any creep I saw doing that.

I don't see mushrooms and lobsters (essentially large water scorpions) are not on the same evolutionary level as I see it.

A bolt to the brain 🧠 of a cow 🐄 or the execution of the anus of a sheep 🐑 is one time instantaneous torture. Luckily, it is delicious.

I'm not going to comment on raising canine as protein and ethically slaughtering them.

I remember going away to change management training by Prosci in Colorado. There were lots of Hal Burton employees there, but the most interesting other "student" was a Canadian working in local government who had been pied piper that led sheep through processing. He did that by calling them and they would follow him to slaughter.
Last Maine trip 🦞
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by Hawk » October 25th 2023, 3:28am

jason_recliner wrote:
October 24th 2023, 6:45pm

I am referring to the process of butchering and eating a lobster while it is alive. Slitting down the inside of the carapace and cutting spasming chunks of flesh from it and eating the spasming flesh, in a way that prolongs the life of the lobster so as much of the flesh can be removed as possible while it is still alive. Sounds like you're referring to cooking lobsters - we do that! (they are usually frozen first, then thawed, but cooking a live lobster occurs where people have them fresh from the water, sure)
Maine sashimi. We have that too albeit in lesser numbers. There’s a few restaurants in NYC serving it. (Jewel Bako is one with a Michelin star) You’re less likely to find it at a roadside stand in Maine but I can’t say I was looking for it. Wouldn’t surprise me though.

One British writer suggested that the only sure way of insulating yourself from charges of hypocrisy is to go vegan. I’m not ready for that but the notion may have merit if one is concerned about such things.

If one is to be concerned about suffering I find it difficult to reconcile criticizing others after visiting a North Carolina pig farm. The actual slaughter is probably a relief.
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by Hawk » October 25th 2023, 8:42am

conjurer wrote:
October 25th 2023, 7:31am
Hawk wrote:
October 25th 2023, 3:28am
If one is to be concerned about suffering I find it difficult to reconcile criticizing others after visiting a North Carolina pig farm.
Interestingly, this is not on my bucket list.
Due to some poor life choices I have found myself, on rare occasion, swapping out a complete set of in-laws for a different set. The late 20th century set featured an ownership interest in one such farm.

I would have remained happily ignorant of the conditions if my ex-wife hadn't insisting on BIL doing a little show and tell. I came out of it unscathed - she avoided pork for years afterward. Pig farms and bucket lists don't mix.
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by Hawk » January 9th 2024, 4:43pm

Well, last time this ancient, archived thread was revived I recall pissing and moaning that it had largely been mooted by the passage of time.

So I might as well make at least a perfunctory effort to keep it updated.

Hot off the Reuters digital press:

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 024-01-09/
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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by Nuvolari » January 9th 2024, 7:30pm

Meanwhile, a different Asian culture with whom we also experienced political entanglements many moons ago seems to also be gravitating toward a more humane collective consciousness, to frame it hippy-ily. 🤔

https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg5nk4/ ... shuts-down

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Re: 15,000 Dogs Slaughtered for Chinese Food Festival

Post by Hawk » January 10th 2024, 8:10am

Nuvolari wrote:
January 9th 2024, 7:30pm
Meanwhile, a different Asian culture with whom we also experienced political entanglements many moons ago seems to also be gravitating toward a more humane collective consciousness, to frame it hippy-ily. 🤔

...
I suppose it's that damn zeitgeist thing again. Shit happens. Oddly enough this thread, though only 12 or so years old, seems to straddle one such more or less global change. Next thing you know the Pyongyang restaurant chain will be serving fucking tofu.

I used to be amused by grumpy, stubborn, opinionated old men pining for the old days. Now I see one in the mirror every damn morning. It's still a tiny bit amusing.
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