SW200 / SW201 Ratchet Wheel Issue - Refurbs

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SW200 / SW201 Ratchet Wheel Issue - Refurbs

Post by 3Flushes » December 4th 2021, 10:32pm

The SW200-1, the update of the SW200, was intended to keep teeth from being broken off of the ratchet wheel when the movement is hand wound. Selita changed the tooth profile of the three wheels in the automatic chain to mitigate the issue, which it doesn't accomplish. If you like to hack for setting purposes and / or hand wind, best to avoid the SW200 or SW 200-1.

Selita also apparently sells 'renewed' 200 and 200-1's or 200's modified into 200-1's.* They are identified by a two digit code likely engraved under the balance wheel near the caliber number and other CS codes. The renewal codes indicate the year the movement was refurbished,* 20 for 2020, 21 for 2021 and sew fourth. The other CS codes you may encounter are DM, which indicates Selita manufactured the movement, or XYZ, for which Selita has not yet provided a meaning. If you have watches with Selita movements, check for these codes. (Source: Caliber Corner)

*CC is working to confirm that "renewal" equates to refurbished - IDK what the hell else it could mean - and what calibers in addition to the SW200 / 201 may be sold refurbished. - CC will publish pics and documentation of the codes and caliber numbers as soon as available. Check with the Caliber Corner website at the SW201 page from time to time if you are interested. https://calibercorner.com/sellita-caliber-sw200-1/

If these are indeed defective movements that have been returned to Selita and refurbished, it should be disclosed to the consumer by the brand sourcing the movements for their watches, even if the warranties are equivalent. I don't recall ever seeing such a disclosure.

If you own a watch with the SW200, SW201, or any other Selita caliber, and find any of the above codes engraved on your movement, post up a pic in this thread - would be interesting to see what's what.
Last edited by 3Flushes on December 5th 2021, 12:26am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SW200 / SW201 Ratchet Wheel Issue - Refurbs

Post by biglove » December 4th 2021, 11:42pm

Well, that’s disturbing.
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Re: SW200 / SW201 Ratchet Wheel Issue - Refurbs

Post by 3Flushes » December 5th 2021, 1:26am

biglove wrote:
December 4th 2021, 11:42pm
Well, that’s disturbing.
This is a longstanding issue --- the 200-1 was introduced in 2008 with reference to the problem with the ratchet wheel which is the wheel closest to the barrel.

I'd guess there aren't too many NOS SW-200's left or 200's still coming back, so the refurbs are likely 201's that get a new ratchet wheel and whatever other service they get, and off they go to whatever brands are scooping them up for a discount with the consumer none the wiser.
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Re: SW200 / SW201 Ratchet Wheel Issue - Refurbs

Post by MAX » December 5th 2021, 8:53am

Great, I have 2 of them, one in an Oris from 2008 and one in a Deep Blue from 2017. No problems as of yet.

Just another thing to worry about as if I needed one.
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Re: SW200 / SW201 Ratchet Wheel Issue - Refurbs

Post by 3Flushes » December 6th 2021, 3:31am

jason_recliner wrote:
December 5th 2021, 3:22pm
Is this the same hand-widing problem that afflicts the 2824?
Indeed ---

ETA changed the tooth profile of the winding train on the 2824-2, but later, due to continuing issues, also secondarily processed the winding train wheels to further prevent ratchet wheel teeth from breaking off.

I've never been able to verify when ETA changed the profile of the teeth, or, if or when ETA garnered a patent for how they changed the teeth, but the popular story is that they did. Apparently Selita copied the 2824-2 so closely in 2003 that they cloned the issue with the ratchet wheel. If ETA did get a patent on the new profile of the teeth, Selita would have had to engineer their own profile in 2008, perhaps yielding a less effective fix in their updated clone.

I had an old Hamilton field watch with the original 2824 and my watchmaker warned me to go easy on the hand winding after a full service at which time he'd replaced the three automatic train wheels as the ratchet wheel looked 'raggedy'. He told me that since the 2824-2 still had some occasional trouble with broken teeth, ETA started either tempering or hardening the winding train wheels, which according to him, all but eliminated the issue. Perhaps if Selita did the same, the problem would be better resolved, although they would lose some of their price advantage in doing so.

Warnings about hand winding the 2824-2 (introduced in 1982) live on but I have not found any with accompanying pictures or testimonials of the problem; they seem to persist based on the recounting of outdated information. On the other hand, documentation of the continuing issue with the 200-1 is all over the place. See the pics at the link in the OP.
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Re: SW200 / SW201 Ratchet Wheel Issue - Refurbs

Post by 3Flushes » December 7th 2021, 4:11am

Otto Frei lists the #415/1313 ratchet wheel for the 2824-2, the 2836-2, and the 2878 (hacking optional) movements. I believe this to be the revised wheel, which was apparently updated to the profile of the 2836-2 and 2878's, and maintains the same fairly tall, stiff, that is, gear ratio (12:26:63) as the original 2824-2 but is interchangeable with the later two movements (both hand wind capable autos).

The 2836-2 and the 2878 have not been plagued by the shearing off of ratchet wheel teeth when they are hand wound. The three winding train wheels of these two movements are hardened like other ETA movements, notably the Valjoux 77XX's which now seems to be the case in the 2824-2.

It is also of note that the ratchet wheel (third wheel), or the first and second wheel in the winding train are not interchangeable with the 3 winding train wheels of the SW200-1 which shares a slew of compatible / interchangeable parts with the 2824-2.
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