The mojito gets new shoes

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The mojito gets new shoes

Post by iwasbanned » October 11th 2020, 4:24pm

I'm really liking this watch. The strap that came with it kinda sucks though. Luckily I had a Camille Fournet laying around and it fits this watch like a glove.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by TemerityB » October 11th 2020, 5:58pm

banned, you are a collector among collectors. Seriously, you really have great taste, sir.

Looks great. As always.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by iwasbanned » October 12th 2020, 7:49am

bedlam wrote:
October 11th 2020, 9:55pm
Where are the shoes??
Carl, the term "new shoes" is slang. In watch forum use, it refers to getting a new strap/bracelet for your watch. The term "new shoes" is also sometimes used in the automotive community to mean new tires/wheels for your vehicle. So for this particular post, getting "new shoes" refers to me swapping out the stock calf strap that came with the Seiko Mojito with a Camille Fournet (CF) I had previously purchased. The CF in this particular example would be the "new shoes". Just in case there is also confusion, there is no actual Mojito here. Mojito is the nickname given to the Seiko SRPE45J1 which is the model number of the watch pictured here. I suspect Seiko called it the "Mojito" because of the green in the dial. This particular series also has other models that use mixed alcoholic beverages as nicknames. You can refer to my post on the Seiko reference SRPE49J1 which is referred to as the "frozen margarita".

Please let me know if I can clear up any other confusing use of terminology.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by 3Flushes » October 12th 2020, 8:40am

Looks great-

CF's a lot of money for straps that don't appear to be full grain leather, or crock-a-gator although the company does speak of the patina that only develops on full grain products. They furthermore don't display the 'lined' inside of the straps (or belts) and the materials marks thereon. The applied graining would also tend to indicate a less than full grain hide (if not full gator) in use while the marketing copy alludes to a full grain product.

Curious what the inside says as to material; a buck and a quarter for handmade, hand stitched, high quality, full grain products (two and a half for gator) is below the median price for similar products from lux or bespoke makers which, given materials, makes them a deal, or a lot of money for what they are.

Please advise as to the terminology stamped onto the product. It may be referenced in tanners' markings stamped at the attaching ends, by the tubes for the pins, that is. Thx!

P.S. "Cousu Main" means hand sewn- I see no clear reference to materials as to leather, gator, or whatnot.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by iwasbanned » October 12th 2020, 9:59am

3F, admittedly, I am not a leatherworks expert. I'm not sure how to distinguish between full-grain or not full-grain. Are you also suggesting that the grain on this alligator is applied as in not a real gator strap or am I confusing that with the term "embossed".

I took CF at their word. I had this strap custom made, and as far as I know this is real, square alligator strap with what CF calls a red caoutchouc calf leather inner lining that has been hand stitched. I picked rubber lining because of sweat. This, plus I really liked my Zenith straps that did the same. The strap looks like pretty good quality to me, but again I am no expert, maybe I did pay too much.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by 3Flushes » October 12th 2020, 10:49am

iwasbanned wrote:
October 12th 2020, 9:59am
3F, admittedly, I am not a leatherworks expert. I'm not sure how to distinguish between full-grain or not full-grain. Are you also suggesting that the grain on this alligator is applied as in not a real gator strap or am I confusing that with the term "embossed".

I took CF at their word. I had this strap custom made, and as far as I know this is real, square alligator strap with what CF calls a red caoutchouc calf leather inner lining that has been hand stitched. I picked rubber lining because of sweat. This, plus I really liked my Zenith straps that did the same. The strap looks like pretty good quality to me, but again I am no expert, maybe I did pay too much.
If you ordered alligator, I'm sure that's what you got, the question is grade. There is basically full grain hides which are the most desirable, top grain, thin and frequently embossed to cover the flaws that would keep a hide from being rated for full grain use and is backed by other materials (this holds true regardless of type of animal hide) , split grain, or suede, then the 'genuine' marking which is an extremely thin embossed leather frequently made with pulpy backing materials.

The lining is a nice touch and they do look to be very well put together, but 3 bills + (for the gator) should buy one the full grain product that will provide the inherent durability and aging when cared for proper. I've generally found that manufacturers who use full or top grain materials trumpet the fact with clear markings which CF may have done in Tanner's markings.

It's not to say that top grain products are inferior when they are well manufactured, however, drawbacks are that it takes very little to scratch or scuff them below the top layer of leather into the backing materials, and they do not age as or develop the natural patina that full grain products do. It's much like when the gold layer of a 'gold-filled' product wears away revealing the copper first backing layer, or in severe cases down to the nickel layer, or to the case metal.

So overall, the quality of the hide in well made full or top grain products is less of an issue than is understanding and getting what one pays for.
Last edited by 3Flushes on October 12th 2020, 11:05pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by iwasbanned » October 12th 2020, 11:24am

3Flushes wrote:
October 12th 2020, 10:49am
If you ordered alligator, I'm sure that's what you got, the question is grade. There is basically full grain hides which are the most desirable, top grain, thin and frequently embossed to cover the flaws that would keep a hide from being rated for full grain use and is backed by other materials (this holds true regardless of type of animal hide) , split grain, or suede, then the 'genuine' marking which is an extremely thin embossed leather frequently made with pulpy backing materials.

The lining is a nice touch and they do look to be very well put together, but 3 bills (for the gator) should buy one the full grain product that will provide the inherent durability and aging when cared for proper. I've generally found that manufacturers who use full or top grain materials trumpet the fact with clear markings which CF may have done in Tanner's markings.

It's not to say that top grain products are inferior when they are well manufactured, however, drawbacks are that it takes very little to scratch or scuff them below the top layer of leather into the backing materials, and they do not age as or develop the natural patina that full grain products do. It's much like when the gold layer of a 'gold-filled' product wears away revealing the copper first backing layer, or in severe cases down to the nickel layer, or to the case metal.

So overall, the quality of the hide in well made full or top grain products is less of an issue than is understanding and getting what one pays for.
So what makes you think this is not full grain leather. My untrained eyes and hands tell me this strap feels and looks as nice as anything I've owned. How would I know the grade?
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by 3Flushes » October 12th 2020, 11:37am

iwasbanned wrote:
October 12th 2020, 11:24am
3Flushes wrote:
October 12th 2020, 10:49am
If you ordered alligator, I'm sure that's what you got, the question is grade. There is basically full grain hides which are the most desirable, top grain, thin and frequently embossed to cover the flaws that would keep a hide from being rated for full grain use and is backed by other materials (this holds true regardless of type of animal hide) , split grain, or suede, then the 'genuine' marking which is an extremely thin embossed leather frequently made with pulpy backing materials.

The lining is a nice touch and they do look to be very well put together, but 3 bills (for the gator) should buy one the full grain product that will provide the inherent durability and aging when cared for proper. I've generally found that manufacturers who use full or top grain materials trumpet the fact with clear markings which CF may have done in Tanner's markings.

It's not to say that top grain products are inferior when they are well manufactured, however, drawbacks are that it takes very little to scratch or scuff them below the top layer of leather into the backing materials, and they do not age as or develop the natural patina that full grain products do. It's much like when the gold layer of a 'gold-filled' product wears away revealing the copper first backing layer, or in severe cases down to the nickel layer, or to the case metal.

So overall, the quality of the hide in well made full or top grain products is less of an issue than is understanding and getting what one pays for.
So what makes you think this is not full grain leather. My untrained eyes and hands tell me this strap feels and looks as nice as anything I've owned. How would I know the grade?
Being a customer, I would inquire directly. There are some numbers that could be tanner's codes but they don't register at the American Tanners' Council, so perhaps they are from a French or EU source.

It got my attention because it was not plainly marked "Full Grain Leather / Alligator" which leads me to wonder. If it feels good to you, even if Top Grain, if it is very likely backed by quality materials, perhaps even with a thin split layer. The only factor would be to be careful about scuffs and scratches which are more of an issue with business cases, purses, and luggage, but shit happens, and it would suck to be out 3 bills.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by 3Flushes » October 12th 2020, 1:16pm

codguy wrote:
October 12th 2020, 1:00pm
FFS tiktok

it is a fucking watch strap.....
Feel free to bend over and grab your ankles for whomever you wish even in view of good information on a largely blind product- a guy with your money doesn't have to trip by golly, however, I doubt that goes for all of us.

I'd be willing to bet if you bought a Holley 4 barrel carb with two barrels, that baby'd go back.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by svaglic » October 12th 2020, 2:12pm

That strap really really looks great, it brings the watch to a whole new level.
Seriously, like I needed to see that. I never had a desire to purchase the green dial, now I am considering it. Gee thanks, salmon dial and now possibly this.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by biglove » October 12th 2020, 3:00pm

3Flushes wrote:
October 12th 2020, 1:16pm
codguy wrote:
October 12th 2020, 1:00pm
FFS tiktok

it is a fucking watch strap.....
Feel free to bend over and grab your ankles for whomever you wish even in view of good information on a largely blind product- a guy with your money doesn't have to trip by golly, however, I doubt that goes for all of us.

I'd be willing to bet if you bought a Holley 4 barrel carb with two barrels, that baby'd go back.


Hell, I appreciate the insights into what constitutes what when it comes to leather straps. Not something I know much about.

Looks like solid reference material to be saved by those of us who are less experienced with straps.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by iwasbanned » October 12th 2020, 5:29pm

I don't believe there is any real reason to question the quality of the CF strap. I did a little more digging and thanks to Cod's links above, I'm even more confident that the leather CFs uses are top notch. If you watch the video you can see they are working with the actual skin and identifying imperfections in it. If this was top grain leather, my understanding is that the top few mm are sanded off meaning you would have to emboss the alligator pattern on and that doesn't appear to be the case. CF is also a founding member of the Association Assurance Qualité des Bracelets de Montre, now it could all be smoke and mirrors but I doubt it. Not to mention they make straps for several of the top swiss brands, there really isn't much to doubt.

I did go ahead and shoot out an email to CF to directly ask if they use Full Grain leather versus top grain and in addition I'll go to my microscope and check and see if I can see pores on this alligator skin, but because they use baby alligators :(, the pores are very fine. Damn you CF, baby alligators deserve to live!
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by iwasbanned » October 12th 2020, 5:30pm

codguy wrote:
October 12th 2020, 1:34pm
IWB-
That is a nice watch strap.
Don't care if it was made from puppy dog tears, delicate snowflakes or INS hating lefties.................. that one is one nice looking watch strap.

I plan to get me at least two!
Thanks dude. When I ordered mine, it took about 6 weeks total to get them in. You won't regret it.
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by iwasbanned » October 12th 2020, 6:06pm

svaglic wrote:
October 12th 2020, 2:12pm
That strap really really looks great, it brings the watch to a whole new level.
Seriously, like I needed to see that. I never had a desire to purchase the green dial, now I am considering it. Gee thanks, salmon dial and now possibly this.
I have to tell you, the green is the best dial not even close :).
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Re: The mojito gets new shoes

Post by bedlam » October 12th 2020, 7:23pm

iwasbanned wrote:
October 12th 2020, 7:49am
bedlam wrote:
October 11th 2020, 9:55pm
Where are the shoes??
Carl, the term "new shoes" is slang. In watch forum use, it refers to getting a new strap/bracelet for your watch. The term "new shoes" is also sometimes used in the automotive community to mean new tires/wheels for your vehicle. So for this particular post, getting "new shoes" refers to me swapping out the stock calf strap that came with the Seiko Mojito with a Camille Fournet (CF) I had previously purchased. The CF in this particular example would be the "new shoes". Just in case there is also confusion, there is no actual Mojito here. Mojito is the nickname given to the Seiko SRPE45J1 which is the model number of the watch pictured here. I suspect Seiko called it the "Mojito" because of the green in the dial. This particular series also has other models that use mixed alcoholic beverages as nicknames. You can refer to my post on the Seiko reference SRPE49J1 which is referred to as the "frozen margarita".

Please let me know if I can clear up any other confusing use of terminology.
Thanks so much Juan. I'd be lost without you :mrgreen:
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