Pretty juicy conversation!
3Flushes wrote: ↑
November 28th 2021, 7:05pm
Top tier companies like Rolex, the world's most counterfeited product, Gucci, and Louis Vuitton - number two and three, respectively, and others, are pursuing counterfeiters more aggressively than ever. From what I've read, not so much due to lost revenue, as folks buying fakes generally couldn't afford the real deal in the first place. Companies like Rolex are primarily concerned about the damage done by cheesy garbage trotted out as the real deal damaging their reputations and heritage, and diluting their trademarks in the marketplace.
Mid tier clothiers, cosmetics companies and perfumers, professional sports franchises and leagues, and sew fourth, collectively lose billions to the piracy of their trademarks each year when folks are duped into buying goods they believe to be genuine, or knowingly buy knock-offs.
Companies have gone to great lengths to authenticate their goods with holographic marks, un-replicable tags with raised or embossed features, intricate labels that are too expensive for counterfeiters to try to replicate, and sew fourth. Interestingly, many of the security features you see on your driver license or state or company identification cards originated in merchandising, with the NFL chiefly among them; they used holograms to authenticate team and league merchandise long before your state's DMV ever knew what they are.
Rolex uses a number of security features - the green holographic sticker on the back, engraved rehauts, and the tiny crown image in the crystal, amongst others. Other brands use distinctive features for authentication like Breguet's secret signature (the coolest), AP's nearly impossible to to replicate stamp and raised trademark on the warranty card, or, Patek's serial number engraved into the inside of the caseback and dial markings, both in the brand's proprietary font, and their distinctive certificate of origin.
These features on all manner of goods not only allows consumers to know they are buying genuine merchandise, but absent such features, inspectors and law enforcement are able to confiscate and destroy counterfeit goods.
One thing is certain - there is no shortage of buyers.
I'd like luxury brands to put as much effort into innovation, quality, and engineering excellence as they do protecting their labels. Instead of making a canvas bag or a steel dive watch that can be replicated for a fraction of the price, why not make something expensive that can't
be replicated? You're not going to see a fake Accutron Spaceview DNA any time soon becasue it would be technically challenging and ruinously expensive to make it. Or keep making your canvas bags, but stop getting so butthurt when somebody else makes them much cheaper, and some people want to buy the cheap one and don't give a toss about your brand.
conjurer wrote: ↑
November 29th 2021, 12:19am
Interestingly, I actually gave some thought to my answer to Mr. recliner, which I don't normally do about, well, anything.
The last few watches I've bought, I've paid retail. A couple of Sinns and a Tudor; this is unusual for me, but I wanted the particular models, and they either weren't available gray or, in the case of the Tudor, were either priced over
retail, or so close to it that it didn't fucking matter.
Also in the case of the Tudor, I had been coveting it for a long time, been obsessing over it (which I don't do much anymore with watches) and knew that it was as good as I could afford. Now, I've been in a new career for a few years, and have, through hard work and diligence, become pretty good at it. I've made some decent money and able to put some away. I love Rolex, but while I could flip some watches and otherwise raise some money to get, say, a GMT-Master II, I didn't want to put that much cash into a watch--nor did I want to get onto some bullshit AD wait-list for one. Tudor came pretty close to what I wanted, so one day me and Mrs. C got into the old Sonata and cruised up to the local AD. There I found the Black Bay GMT, and after a few minutes drooling over it, I hauled out the MasterCard and bought the sumbitch.
Herein lies the reason that people who wear a fake watch make me want to fucking puke: I worked my ass off, did my research, saved my money, and then, when the time was right, I paid full-boat retail, and do not regret it. I got lucky--the watch I really wanted was there, in the case, and ready to purchase. The act of paying for it made me feel good; I worked hard, I wanted something of value, and paid for it. When I wear it, I feel good. Seeing it on my wrist makes me feel like I have accomplished something. There comes a time when, as collectors, we ante up and pay good money for a watch that we can wear with pride, that we earned.
We can say, this watch on my wrist, it means
something. It means, through my toil and my taste, I was able to afford and buy something that others will see and say, there goes somebody of taste and refinement.
This means something.
Those who buy fake watches knowingly are cunts. Those who buy fake watches knowing are dumb cunts. I don't care how it makes them feel the same way I don't care who some old guy who jerks off to kiddie porn makes them feel. In terms of fake watches, they took a big shortcut to make themselves feel good, and I don't give a fuck, they're still cunts. We, in This Thing of Ours, know how buying a new, real, watch, feels. Those who pretend and cunts of no account. They can fuck themselves in the ear.
They're nice watches, but they still just watches, still just things... baubles
. Different people have different priorities. Some want to buy camper trailers, holidays, education for their kids, cars, boats, gadgets, bags, or watches. Thing is, many of those things have inherent value, cost, worth. You can't fake a holiday, education, pet, car, boat... You can easily fake a canvas bag or steel watch, and it's functionally identical to the real branded/licensed thing. Yes, you might be doing it to look richer than you are, or impress some girl at a bar, but you might be doing it because you like the look of something but don't want to spend too much on it. Regardless of the motivation, I find it very difficult equating any luxury/fake good buying decision with child abuse. Your mileage may vary.
DoctorIvey wrote: ↑
November 29th 2021, 11:04am
What does all this mean? Who knows. Wear what you like. If you want to impress, drive a Lambo or Tesla and forget wartches. Personally, I like things that are understated and somewhat obscure, so I'm never going to impress anyone, and I'm okay with that because i'd hate it if I drew attention. I also admire finely crafted mechanical things which is probably why I also am drawn to bicycles, firearms, and pool cues. So knock offs tend to make me cringe, and feel sad. But that's me. I feel the same way about a lot of things, which is why I'm often in the minority in any group discussion involving pop culture, fashion, etc. And I'm okay with that.You do what you want, and I'll try my hardest not to judge.
We probably all like well made things. What happens when somebody can make something as well as or nearly as well as somebody else, for much less? Should we judge somebody w=for choosing to buy the much cheper of the two well made things, with the luxury brand falsely affixed? Yes, as it turns out, yes we should, based on the intelligent and well-argued vitriol expressed throughout this thread!
bbattle wrote: ↑
November 29th 2021, 5:34pm
I have my favorite cycling teams and I have bought their official team jerseys, much as one would buy an officially licensed NFL jersey to support your favorite team. There are lots of cheaper versions out there but they are invariably of lesser quality and they hurt the bottom line (and reputation) of the official jersey maker.
And yes, there are "Chinarellos" out there; bicycles claiming to be expensive Pinarellos but really just cheap or not so cheap counterfeits. I am not about to fly down a mountain at 40-50mph on a fake bicycle.
For me there's an ethical distinction between fake luxury bags and watches that are functionally equivalent, and fake items that are functionally inferior. Especially where functionally inferior can mean unsafe and/or hazardous. I don't give a damn about anybody making or buying a fake watch, I just don't. Manufacturing fake medicine, brake assemblies, bicycle frames, alloy wheels, and other items where they are made cheaper by reducing quality, integrity, and functionality (and, hence, safety), is wrong IMO (in addition to being illegal).
This sort of brings me mack to my
original, somewhat tongue-in-cheek response to where one shouldn't wear a fake watch.
3Flushes wrote: ↑
November 29th 2021, 4:30am
... a watch is just a watch...
Edited to make not your point your point, but I kind of agree these days. Maybe I'm just not as invested in the hobby any more.