I need Your help here, verdammt!

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gerdson
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I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » February 27th 2015, 5:40am

I got this Wyler Vetta during the last charity auction.
Image
It is very nice, although a bit "unusual" design. My concern is the strap - it is a custom strap, it could really still be worn a while, but the condition... the once glossy leather surface is getting dull and overall it is not looking perfect anymore. And with Wyler being out of business, there is no way to get a replacement. Anyways I was thinking about taking the wonderful movement, a Valjoux 7753 that was just serviced recently and to put it into a different case. It will also require a different dial obviously, due to the form.

The dial option is limited - I have only found one current supplier of a neutral Valjoux 7753 dial:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/DIAL-FOR-MOVEMENT-ETA-VALJOUX-7753-29-5-MM-BLACK-OR-SILVER-/141279384557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item20e4e853ed
Black or white? I tend to choose the dark one. Not the greatest option in either case, but not too expensive either. I might also obtain a black dial disk.

Cases are abundant. However here are my personal specs:
- 40mm or less
- less than 15mm in height, if possible
- stainless steel
- preferably a glass back
- as cheap as possible :mrgreen:

Here are some options:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/SET-CASE-STAINLESS-STEEL-70S-40MM-FOR-MOVEMENT-VALJOUX-7750-OLD-DIAL-NEW-HANDS-/131349214547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9505f553
(Currently my favorite, also comes with a nice set of hands)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ollech-Wajs-DIVING-CHRONOGRAPH-ID3066-Valjoux-7750-Case-dial-new-old-stock-NOS-/311303539197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487b2309fd
(Nice but likely going to end up somewhere around 300 USD - too much)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Vintage-Navigator-Chrongraph-Valjoux-ETA-7750-ca-1970-case-dial-/311300085011?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487aee5513
(Nice, probably going to end up costing less than 100 USD. Note the internal city bezel - although I am not sure it is really useful in any way.)

All of them are around 40mm. 38mm would be great, smaller ones I have not seen yet. The 7750 is 29mm in diameter, so theoretically it would fit into a 36mm case and I have seen early vintage watches with 7750 of that size. But there is another issue - the height of the movement, which will not allow a case of less than 13,5 mm or so. And a small but high case is awkward on the wrist - I guess 38-40mm will work better.

What do You think?
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by Kahuna74 » February 27th 2015, 8:32am

mrneddles wrote:I would go a different route and just get a custom strap for it. Send the whole thing to Jeanna at stonecreekstraps.com. Under $300 for even the highest end gator straps, 8-10 weeks turn around.

One of the best straps I own on a watch. Came from the Doc. I think I would go that way myself.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by conjurer » February 27th 2015, 9:44am

While the custom strap option might well be the best, if you're inspired to build a whole new watch around the movement, here're my thoughts:

I owned a d.freemont Laguna Seca 7750 for some time, and while it was a great watch, it was 38mm, and with the thickness of the movement (and case) it always seemed kind of out of proportion to width. I'd imagine that this would be even more pronounced in a 36mm case. I understand that when the 7750 came out, most watch sizes were smaller, but I think that a 40mm case always seemed to suit the 7750 best. Naturally, this only applies to round cases, as square cases wear differently.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » February 27th 2015, 2:00pm

Thanks, guys. I am sure a strap could be made, but it would cost me more than I paid for the watch. I will take another picture tomorrow, that do show the details for You to assess. I will also talk it through with a leather expert, maybe there is a way to preserve it.

But I must also admit, I got this itch in my fingers, I am yearning for the project. :mrgreen:
Of course - other things in my drawer are still waiting as well. But more difficult than I had thought.

Conshupster - You're right about the proportions, 40mm should be perfect.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » February 27th 2015, 3:01pm

Because it is not Your money. :mrgreen:
Ok, I will consider to pull that other movement out of the drawer again...

Image

Valjoux 92. I'd love this fantastic dial:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Valjoux-92-Dial-Watch-part-diameter-31-3-mm-/171209328809?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dcdf08a9
Image

But I can't find a proper, fucking case for a Valjoux 92, that will work without a major hassle. The Valjoux 92 has a bit different geometry than other Valjoux'.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » March 12th 2015, 3:22am

I am fully aware of the fact, that some here will hate me for it, but I have now bought a Valjoux 7750 case for "test purposes":
http://www.ebay.de/itm/NIVADA-CHRONO-7750-MILITARY-black-40mm-CASE-amp-SAPHIR-GLAS-amp-CROWN-/311303409454?nma=true&si=kJ%252F59va01QbOtcMOGT6swMwC6bU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Of course I will keep all the original Wyler Parts and the alteration could always be rolled back.
Along with the case I bought the black dial and a suiting set of hands.

The case is really looking fantastic - brandnew, signed "Nivada", which is one of my favorite brands anyways. It is coated in black, I am not sure whether it is PVD or something else. The sloped bezel-part however is actually polished steel - I haven't seen such a combination before. The pictures on ebay don't show that properly, and I will post some of my own later on, when the dial has arrived.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » March 29th 2015, 9:13am

Ok, some here have been asking how this story is to be continued. For one thing - I have made up my mind not to have a custom strap made. The strap here is really complicated - the end pieces are actually of plastic material, and the strap-maker has meticulously glued the finely scarfed thin leather around it in order to give it the look of solid leather. There is no doubt, that I could have it replaced, but I am not even going to bother to ask for a quotation.
Image
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The main reason is, that I simply can not get warm with the rest of the watch. The dial is beautyful, but the case is, well, clumsy. The crown is almost unusable, doesn't provide any grip at all. It is obvious that Wyler did here try to come with a design of their own - and they did without doubt succeed. It just doesn't work for me. Now I could simply try to sell it again, but I really do like the movement... here it is:
Image
I have taken off the rotor (on the Valjoux 7750 You just have to remove the center screw)
Image
Looking at it from the side, obviously the locations of the screws that do retain the dial are not visible - that is because there is a "movement holder" ring around it. Such rings are often used when a watch case is bigger than the movement.
Image
I stopped right here - the dial is too precious to have it ruined by a clumsy fool like I am, so my watchmaker will have to do the rest.

This version of the Valjoux 7750, a 7753 was only introduced to the market in 2002, so this Wyler Vetta is not really a vintage piece. One other reason why I don't feel too sorry about the next step ;-). But I like the layout of the dial (it is very obvious that ETA wanted to provide something here, that has the looks of the famous Zenith El Primero). Btw., this is a 27 jewels version of the movement, or at least it says so on the rotor.

Here is the case that I bought. It is Nivada, as some of You know one of my favorite brands. It was sold as being for a Valjoux 7750, and a first test did also reveal that it does have the exact proper inner diameter. Outer dimensions are 40mm w/o crown and 15mm thick.
Image
I have never actually seen a Nivada with Valjoux 7750 at all, and certainly not with this kind of case. Only a couple of 7765 are constantly around on ebay, that is a manual wind version of this movement. Whatever...
Image
The case is black pvd coated, apart from the flanks of the bezel which are polished.
Image
For test purposes I have put the dial into the case - diameter is perfect:
Image
Here is the set of hands:
Image
I do have something at a Danish watchmaker, and my plans are to ask him to quickly swap the dial and hands and have it put into the new case when I go to pick up the other items. But that is still going to take a couple of weeks, I am afraid. :o
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by biglove » March 29th 2015, 10:27am

That's great progress now. Excellent photos, too.

Excited to see the final product.

Someone put an awful lot of work into that custom strap. That's some man hours.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » June 1st 2015, 10:18pm

I have not really made any progress yet, verdammt, on either watch. Not much time lately. Found a case that might work for the Vajlux 92 handwind movement, but it would need a larger diameter dial.
Like this one maybe... plus it's cheap, I don't take a big risk with it.
Image
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » June 2nd 2015, 4:47am

Thanks. Personally I do like the other one better - or at least very much as well. Again, for comparison:
Image
This red/blue one is only 31mm however, the other one is 33mm.
Both have the look and style of the 40ies - 50ies - so I can't just put them into any modern style watchcase. That is another point that makes it difficult to decide...
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » October 12th 2015, 12:07am

Verdammt verdammt. I had bought this here case and a dial for my Valjoux 92. But we can't find a proper crystal with chromed ring.

Image
Image
Image
Image

I will either need a larger dial (almost impossible) or a different case. Or more luck with a crystal.
No luck on the other project mentioned here either - but that is not critical. I had forgotten half of the parts at home when I drove to the watchmaker. Now I haven't met him in a couple of months...
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by biglove » October 12th 2015, 4:43am

You are a man of great patience!
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » December 8th 2015, 10:05pm

Perseverance in all things... indeed.
Went to see my Danish chum last week. We found out the reason, why I have never seen a Nivada with a Valjoux 7750 before. They likely never built one. :mrgreen:

Lars did manage to swap the dial and have the hands mounted (though the sub-dial hands in the pos set that I bought didn't fit, for some reason, we just kept the original ones from the Wyler). But then when we put it into the case, it turned out to be to thick. So we figured out, the case was made for a Valjoux 7765 (handwound version) anyways...

Two choices - a) just keep it as it is, but leave the rotor off. b) Get a 7765 and swap out all the automatic parts with the manual wind parts

a) Would have been quick and dirty (and a lot cheaper). However although the 7750/7753 does have a manual wind, it is not "made for eternity, as it is rarely used due to the automatic. Plus the barrel of an automatic watch houses a main spring, that is not fixed to the outside of the barrel - that is to allow free slip when the watch is fully wound. On a hand wind watch, You don't want/need this.
b) So that is what I did... It will also look a bit nicer, although "nice" does not really apply when talking about any movement in the 775x and 776x family...
Image
This is the donor:
Image
The 7765 dial layout is a bit grim in my eyes. According to the seller, the watch diameter is only around 30mm.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by svaglic » December 8th 2015, 10:33pm

Hate to be a bummer, but I think that getting a custom strap would be the best route to go. I realize you have spent a lot of money to get to this point, but the case and dial I see does nothing for me.
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Re: I need Your help here, verdammt!

Post by gerdson » December 8th 2015, 10:43pm

That's fair enough, and I got that idea as well, in between. I could just try to find a nice 7765 dial now, for example. But I still hate the idea to spend a 200 plus on a hand made strap for a watch that is not quite to my taste.
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