Still doubting global warming?

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Still doubting global warming?

Postby jason_recliner » February 6th 2014, 8:13pm

I was involved in a discussion this week with several scientists and engineers, several of whom are FAR more intelligent than myself (I know, I know, low hanging fruit...). This little comment really opened my eyes:

"Yes we were going into a cooling period called the little Holocene. This cooling trend is the one that made Greenland and Labrador and Newfoundland become uninhabitable for the Viking, who had been there for some hundreds of years. By increasing CO2 to the present 400 ppm up from 260 ppm in 1780, we have reversed the cooling trend. So, detractors like Lawson have told us repeatedly, as CO2 emissions escalated, that the rate of Global Warming IS decreasing. The unasked or answered question has is “Where all the heat came from to melt all the glacial ice - the disappearance of which, worldwide, is fully documented?” The amount of glacial ice (not including the missing Arctic sea ice) disappearing worldwide recently has been 150,000,000,000 tonnes (150 Gt) per year. The heat of fusion is 333.55 cal/g. Therefore every year 2003 to 2010 the melting ice has absorbed over 50 sextillion (50 x 1018) calories of heat per year. This heat was absorbed by our planet’s natural buffer against global warming, that’s why the rate of global warming has temporarily decreased. That heat did NOT go into increasing the average surface temp. But, the glacial ice, our planet’s buffer against temperature fluctuation is finite, eventually it will be gone and the Ecopalypse will be upon us."
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby fatman » February 6th 2014, 8:48pm

This is interesting. It painted a picture. It makes sense.

Having said that ^^ , I don't think I have to worry too much about seeing that day.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby foghorn » February 6th 2014, 8:55pm

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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby fatman » February 6th 2014, 8:57pm

:yeah taht:
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Luftwafflles » February 6th 2014, 9:21pm

Yes. More than ever actually.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby jason_recliner » February 6th 2014, 10:00pm

Luftwafflles wrote:Yes. More than ever actually.


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Why doesn't that surprise me!

I await your rebuttal in anticipation, Mr. Waffles.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Bigjimzlll » February 6th 2014, 10:25pm

CO2 feed trees..in turn the trees give back O2 Plant more trees...problem solved.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby jason_recliner » February 6th 2014, 11:05pm

Bigjimzlll wrote:CO2 feed trees..in turn the trees give back O2 Plant more trees...problem solved.


So you're suggesting a large scale tree planting program could help to partly mitigate the imapcts of ACC? Spot on. Too bad we're cutting down WAY more trees than we're planting.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby labman » February 6th 2014, 11:47pm

jason_recliner wrote:
Bigjimzlll wrote:CO2 feed trees..in turn the trees give back O2 Plant more trees...problem solved.


So you're suggesting a large scale tree planting program could help to partly mitigate the imapcts of ACC? Spot on. Too bad we're cutting down WAY more trees than we're planting.



Not true - at least in the United States

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilder ... o-its-true
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby jason_recliner » February 7th 2014, 12:22am

Sure. You've already cut down most of your trees. Same here.

The real concerns are South America and S/E Asia.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby hcharles » February 7th 2014, 1:49am

Look what happened to the Sahara Forest in Africa.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Hawk » February 7th 2014, 6:38am

I tend toward believing James Hansen as far as the science is concerned and Bjorn Lomborg when it comes to remediation and the pecking order of AGW on the totem pole of crisis. True to form, this tends to piss off everybody with the possible exception of those that don't give a shit.

However, recent events in Somalia would seem to suggest that increased pirate activity might well reverse the trend.

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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Mark1 » February 7th 2014, 7:19am

I think global warming is the scientific worlds Bigfoot.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby jason_recliner » February 7th 2014, 7:28am

Mark1 wrote:I think global warming is the scientific worlds Bigfoot.


Fair enough. Please explain why you don't believe the figures I posted above.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby bedlam » February 7th 2014, 8:26am

He can't...its just bald contraryness
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby AJC » February 7th 2014, 8:58am

Cooling trend if you look at ut up close. Step back and look at the bigger picture and you'll see we have large masses of ice on this planet which is historically abnormal. We are in a warming period and I believe we will continue to be until we are at least out of this current "little ice age."

I believe CO2 PPM levels are worth less than laymen would have your believe, the planet Is historically really fucking cold right now and the planet is trying to get back to some form of homeostasis, which of course doesn't exist.
Everyone is freaking out about the polar ice caps reducing in size while the fuckers aren't even supposed to be there.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Falstaff » February 7th 2014, 9:37am

Well, something is sure the hell going on with the weather and the planet - whether man-made or naturally occurring - and none of it is good in regard to how we currently operate as a civilization - sea levels rising, droughts at historic highs, increasingly violent and devastating storms, typhoons, cyclones, hurricanes, blizzards, etc - increased volcanic and earthquake activity all round the world.

The "debate" about global warming is not whether it is happening - it is - but typically for humans - rather on who or what to blame.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Falstaff » February 7th 2014, 9:41am

Hawk wrote:I tend toward believing James Hansen as far as the science is concerned and Bjorn Lomborg when it comes to remediation and the pecking order of AGW on the totem pole of crisis. True to form, this tends to piss off everybody with the possible exception of those that don't give a shit.

However, recent events in Somalia would seem to suggest that increased pirate activity might well reverse the trend.

Image



Anybody want to get up a pirate hunting expedition off the coast of Somalia? Charter a ship, load up with weapons, try to look temptingly weak to lure the pirates in and then have a fine shooting party? Capital fun, I'd bet.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Mark1 » February 7th 2014, 9:52am

jason_recliner wrote:
Mark1 wrote:I think global warming is the scientific worlds Bigfoot.


Fair enough. Please explain why you don't believe the figures I posted above.


It's pretty simple, if you don't trust the messenger, you don't trust the message. To say that either side of the debate has no agenda is foolhardy. I'm not saying that global warming is or is not happening-just that differing viewpoints can and have interpreted the "facts" and come to different conclusions. Thanks for speaking for me bedlam.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby conjurer » February 7th 2014, 10:25am

Falstaff wrote:
Hawk wrote:I tend toward believing James Hansen as far as the science is concerned and Bjorn Lomborg when it comes to remediation and the pecking order of AGW on the totem pole of crisis. True to form, this tends to piss off everybody with the possible exception of those that don't give a shit.

However, recent events in Somalia would seem to suggest that increased pirate activity might well reverse the trend.

Image



Anybody want to get up a pirate hunting expedition off the coast of Somalia? Charter a ship, load up with weapons, try to look temptingly weak to lure the pirates in and then have a fine shooting party? Capital fun, I'd bet.


I don't know, Falstaff. The last expedition you got together was pretty awful--not that shooting a bunch of Aborigines in Oz wasn't a hoot, but then Slowpo took a hot shot of Sumatran smack and passed out in the outback. A few hours later he was gone, consumed by wild dingoes. It was a good thing that Don Barzini had plenty of undeclared greenbacks so we were able to bribe the fucking Aussie Johnny Laws and make our getaway.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby labman » February 7th 2014, 11:55am

Not my words but I agree with 100% of what they imply. ;)

"I'm 100% certain no one can say for 100% certainty which of the sources are 100% accurate for 100% of the time."


(the rest are my words and calculations FWIW)
"Statistics/Facts" can be made to fit the "point/truth" that they are supporting whether the "point/truth" is accurate or not.

Is the earth in a warming cycle? Maybe, maybe not. The world's greatest scientist and scholars, at one time, were teaching everyone that the world was flat; some scientist knew better - they were in the minority and did not have the emperical evidence at the time to prove their theory. Until the evidence was undeniable it was not accepted that the world was round.

At what rate does the earth go through its warming and cooling cyclyes (on average)? 1000's, 10,000's of years?

Have there been periods of time when there have been spikes in the heating and cooling cycles that are outlying of the overall heating or cooling trend?

Are humans pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere at an increaseing rates? You bet! With the amount of gaseous expelsion that the average human does (on average, a person produces about half a liter of fart gas per day, distributed over an average of about fourteen daily farts) with 7.246 billion people (an growing by the second) producing 3.6215 billion liters of methane everyday, on average, we are farting 2,656.275 tons (short ton - 2000lb/ton) of methane into the atmosphere! DAILY! That is 969,540 tons of methane per year from humans farts!!! And everyone knows that methane is a more efficient greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. While carbon dioxide is given a global warming potential (GWP) of 1 over a 20 year period, methane has a GWP of 72 for the same time period. What does this mean? 1 ton of methane in the atmosphere has potentially 72 times the impact of 1 ton of carbon dioxide.

Poppy cock you say! How did he come up with these number? Well I'll tell you.

Utilizing the Ideal gas Law PV=nRT where P = pressure (atm), V = volume (L) n = moles, R = the ideal gas constant (0.08206 L x atm / mol x K), T = temperature (K).

At STP (standard temperature and pressure) where P = 1atm and T = 293.5K we can easily solve for n - moles.

At STP 1L of Methane will contain 0.0415 moles of methane. We then need to convert moles to grams - Methane being compromised of 1 carbon and 4 hydrogen will have a weight of 16.04g. 16.04 x 0.0415 = 0.666 grams of methane/L does not seem like a whole lot but when you multiply it by 3.6215 billion L you end up with 2.4119 billion grams of methane/day.

Converting grams to short ton 2.4119 billion grams = 2656.275 short tons or there abouts.

Conversion factors utilized were

1000 million/billion
28.375 grams/ounce
16 ounces/lb
2000 lbs/ton (short)
365 days/year

Bottom line - WE NEED TO STOP FUCKING FARTING!!!!!!

Don't even get me started on the amount of cows and pigs that are out there farting their collective asses off as well! :shock:

So when someone says "Global warming my ass" , they may be more factual than they realize. :ugeek:

The reality of it is we really don't know what the fuck is going on - other than it was -1.8 F when I woke up this morning and I have doumentation to prove it! :lol:
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby Horse Feathers » February 7th 2014, 12:01pm

Perhaps it just makes sense to disagree and just focus on things we can address (the list to the right) :oops:

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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby foghorn » February 7th 2014, 12:17pm

Falstaff wrote:

Anybody want to get up a pirate hunting expedition off the coast of Somalia? Charter a ship, load up with weapons, try to look temptingly weak to lure the pirates in and then have a fine shooting party? Capital fun, I'd bet.




Better yet how about chartering a ship to go to Antarctica to study climate change? And find out where all the ice went?
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby conjurer » February 7th 2014, 1:37pm

foghorn wrote:
Falstaff wrote:

Anybody want to get up a pirate hunting expedition off the coast of Somalia? Charter a ship, load up with weapons, try to look temptingly weak to lure the pirates in and then have a fine shooting party? Capital fun, I'd bet.




Better yet how about chartering a ship to go to Antarctica to study climate change? And find out where all the ice went?


Shooting some greasy-ass Somali pirates sounds like more fun.
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Re: Still doubting global warming?

Postby eddiea » February 7th 2014, 3:47pm

Hope I can get the goddamn Jaeger LeCoultre before is all over......
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