Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Asian Made & Swiss Asian watches

Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby ewcuk » December 23rd 2012, 11:45pm

I joined this merry collection of watch lovers due to a Doxa post of China made Doxa.


China
and the companies in China are all run by Chinese people there is no
such thing as a company in China owned or run by a western set of
directors IT DOES NOT EXIST there is no such thing as a westerners being
involved in actual day to day running of any sub contractor making stuff .

Chinese
consider cheating and corruption as a cultural benefit and smart , as such there
is no such thing as integrity .. IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY

Westerners and western companies are fair game, and as such making money from us is why they deal with us ... ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY

Saving money by cheating westerners is part of the game , cutting corners on quality and material is how they do it ... ...ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY

Chinese companies and Asians think about today and what they can get today , saving money to make money Today they don't care about tomorrow ... ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY

No
western company exists in China, every company is owned by the Chinese,
the name they put on their products is not their name so cutting corners
in terms of material , machining or even the grade plastic used does
them no harm .. after all whose reputation goes in the toilet the contractor or the brand ? The cost
cutting often does not show during the warranty so in reality who gives
a fuck in the Chinese production plant saving money is the game .. its not their warranty as they don't offer one , or
their name and by then the contract is filled. QC does not test each unit and quality fade is a Chinese game .. Batch 1, all good .. Batch 2 , 80 % good .. Last Batch, your name is fucked but its too late .. No company can check 100% of packed product and no company does .

Western companies
have embraced this because they have exploited the millions of Chinese
workers and they don't have the headache of suppliers, they just get the
end product delivered at cost far lower than they could if they made it
themselves .. They don't pass on the cost they just make more so every
wins .. Right .... WRONG

The end user looses, he buys something
that is not made well, its not what it seems and in fact its not even
made by the brand it pretends to be , it wont last, it might be toxic in
its construction and it might even be made out of something other than
it says it is. One thing is sure it will be cost stripped by the Chinese .

Now
where does Doxa fit in to this .. well Doxa is owned by the Jenny
Family in Switzerland and was bought some years ago by them , they own
Walca a OEM watch manufacturer in Switzerland , that has some
manufacturing in Hong Kong ( most likely China with HK an office ) .
Walca make watches for people that put labels on product, Hugo Boss ,
Coinwatch and many others .

Is Doxa made in China ? I am a 100%
certain that it conforms to the Swiss rules of Swiss made and as such is
Swiss made .. Almost certainly some parts are made in China but I would
suggest these parts are the bracelet and not much else .

I own 2
Doxa watches both are very very well made , they are the Shark 300m and
I bought both in HK for 600 USD each they both have genuine ETA 2824
Movements in them and are finsihed inside unlike any Chinese watch I
have seen, the Chines could not care less about what you cant see , so I
am sure they are finished in Switzerland. in fact the case work is
superb and much better than a any Chinese case I have seen the fit of
the back and the machining is perfect on both of them as is the crown
and the case tube so maybe the case is made in Switzerland too . Both
were adjusted to keep time of 3 secs a day and both are great value .

Now lets look at Tag and Doxa

Aquaracer 500m . Swiss Made by law

Tag Case work ..... Poor fit and Finish, back thread bad machining almost certainly Chinese

Case tube ...... Replaced twice in warranty almost certainly due to Chinese crap steel

Bracelet ..... Pins fell out after 6 months on sporadic wear almost certainly Chinese machining and Manufacture with crap steel

Clasp ..... Rust on the inside Almost certainly Chinese crap Steel

Movement ..... SW200-1 100 % Swiss Made ( maybe with some Chinese parts )

Case Spacer ... Plastic ... Chinese for sure crap finish poor quality and cracked

Steel Quality ... Who Knows Rust and excessive wear with a black wrist after 2 hrs ...

Cost 2500 USD


Now Doxa Swiss made by law

Case work ... Superb almost certainly Swiss

Case Tube .. Like butter and perfect Fit certainly Swiss

Bracelet ... Well made but almost certainly Chinese

Clasp ... No rust yet but part of bracelet so Chinese

Movement .. ETA 2824 100% Swiss

Case Spacer .. Perfect fit perfect finish and good quality and good quality steel .. almost certainly Swiss

Steel Quality ... 316L

Cost 600 USD

Doxa make good watches and I am sure they do this is Switzerland along with Tag, at least to the rules of the Swiss Federation , China makes shit and Doxa don't use this shit in their watch of that I am sure .. Tag do, of that I am sure too , but both are Swiss Made and Tag is three times more money . I know which one I like best .

Doxa sell in to the USA and they sell a watch the rest of the world cant buy , I have no idea if it is good or not, but I think the Jenny family would not have bought Doxa to destroy the name by using inferior Chinese workmanship or materials. They know that companies that want cheap wont care about quality so they have Chinese factories making watches for other brands where cost is king , after all walca was where they made their money so in this regard it makes sense .

The family bought Doxa to have a brand because like the Chinese contractors that make shit who has heard of walca .. I like how Doxa is made and I know the Chinese could not care less about the inside or what you cant see Doxa do care, that's not Chinese , I know the Chinese use shit steel Doxa do not , that's not Chinese and I know Chinese fit and finish is never that good, Doxa have great fit and finish, that's not Chinese either .

No matter what you spec the Chinese will sell you shit , so don't give me grades of quality the game for the Chinese is cost cutting and getting as much as they can out of each deal they cant help it, they will tell you its 316L and it might just be but the lowest grade they can get, they will tell you its high grade aluminum .. yeah with lead in it so they get more for the weight I know its been done to me ( they got 3 USD more a ton ). They will give spec it can never meet , the list goes on and on





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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby koimaster » December 24th 2012, 12:07am

Perhaps you might to expand on the John Vargas claims and documents as well as photos of doxa cases in the walca asia site.

You might also want to provide evidence such as an investigation into the building of the movements by eta or by chinese techs. Members here are entitled to their opinions but when they make certain claims they are required to prove them. Until proof is provided otherwise, Doxa will remain in the asian forum. They may or may not conform to "Swiss Made" but then again, Invicta makes similar claims. I have an irreantum magellan watch which has a ETA movement and fits very well with a great finish which is Chinese made. So how it feels is not proof.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby ewcuk » December 24th 2012, 12:17am

Ok Fair game I will post pictures when I have taken them

but lets get it straight .. I have no connection with Doxa I do not sell them I have a large collection of watches and I have just aired my views .

Doxa is OEM brand it is nothing to do with the original brand and for all intent purposes might as well be a new name .

I still stand by my comments I think quality alone say Swiss .

But for the sake of doubt I will post Tag and Doxa to prove my point
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby koimaster » December 24th 2012, 12:26am

ewcuk wrote:Ok Fair game I will post pictures when I have taken them

but lets get it straight .. I have no connection with Doxa I do not sell them I have a large collection of watches and I have just aired my views .

Doxa is OEM brand it is nothing to do with the original brand and for all intent purposes might as well be a new name .

I still stand by my comments I think quality alone say Swiss .

But for the sake of doubt I will post Tag and Doxa to prove my point




No issues on my end. The original Doxa is a great company and as I said, everyone is entitled at this forum to their opinion. That is why this place is here, no mods to close threads. If the Jenny family were as you say they are, you would have thought they would have thought up their own brand and not try to play off the reputation of the original which was highly thought of.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby elau » December 24th 2012, 6:21am

Ewcuk,
You seem to paint a picture with an extremely broad brush. Your claim of Chinese business practices and Chinese mentality is your imaginations at best.

Have you work with Chinese businessmen before? Have you even been to China?

Be careful how you answer. We have members here do and can easily prove you wrong.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby codguy » December 24th 2012, 6:52am

Back up your claims/accusations, otherwise this thread becomes you trying to justify your watch purchase.



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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby eddiea » December 24th 2012, 7:09am

ewcuk wrote:I joined this merry collection of watch lovers due to a Doxa post of China made Doxa.

Really? that was it for you?...sorry to heard that. Image
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby ewcuk » December 24th 2012, 8:38am

elau wrote:Ewcuk,
You seem to paint a picture with an extremely broad brush. Your claim of Chinese business practices and Chinese mentality is your imaginations at best.

Have you work with Chinese businessmen before? Have you even been to China?

Be careful how you answer. We have members here do and can easily prove you wrong.


I own a company in Singapore I have lived in Asia for over ten years, yes I have been to China with Chinese people and one of my co directors is Chinese descendent as are a number of my Singaporean suppliers ... Oh you had better believe I speak from knowledge, let the tests begin I will be happy when time permits to supply the proof . I have lived in Thailand / Philippines / Singapore and Hong Kong in the last ten years . I sold my UK manufacturing company in 1991 and created a new one in my field in Asia 4 years ago . It is now based in Singapore ... Confirm my IP with the moderator if you like .. with regards to blanket accusations ... Do frogs croak when its raining ? Then the Chinese cut costs ALL OF THEM

Watches are my passion not my business , engineering is my qualification not my business , manufacture is my business .... and the name will remain my business so don't ask
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby andrema » December 24th 2012, 8:42am

pictures or it didn't happen.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby Horse Feathers » December 24th 2012, 9:02am

Quick question for the OP.

Can you explain why the company behind the Doxa brand offers no documented defense of the accusations themselves ? It seem their defense is to just deny or make threats. That alone turned me off and will not consider a purchase

Find it odd that you join a forum just to defend them. I'll play along with skepticism until I see more proof.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby mrneddles » December 24th 2012, 9:30am

Horse Feathers wrote:Quick question for the OP.

Can you explain why the company behind the Doxa brand offers no documented defense of the accusations themselves ? It seem their defense is to just deny or make threats. That alone turned me off and will not consider a purchase

Find it odd that you join a forum just to defend them. I'll play along with skepticism until I see more proof.


Exactly. I would like to see some photo documentation of Doxa's Swiss factory. As best I can tell, their address in Switzerland is just a mail box.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby bigedsurf » December 24th 2012, 9:50am

“Well, opinions are like assholes... everybody has one. ” Eastwood...........yup
time flies.........
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby eddiea » December 24th 2012, 10:01am

ewcuk wrote:
I own a company in Singapore I have lived in Asia for over ten years, yes I have been to China with Chinese people and one of my co directors is Chinese descendent as are a number of my Singaporean suppliers ... Oh you had better believe I speak from knowledge, let the tests begin I will be happy when time permits to supply the proof . I have lived in Thailand / Philippines / Singapore and Hong Kong in the last ten years . I sold my UK manufacturing company in 1991 and created a new one in my field in Asia 4 years ago . It is now based in Singapore ... Confirm my IP with the moderator if you like .. with regards to blanket accusations ... Do frogs croak when its raining ? Then the Chinese cut costs ALL OF THEM
Watches are my passion not my business , engineering is my qualification not my business , manufacture is my business .... and the name will remain my business so don't ask

You must be in the top ten list of lousiest trolls that ever visited here (and God knows we had a few) your level of stupidity, is just a tad above too damn high.
Guessing your holidays are a bit shitty? Singapore? you mean, that Tanjong Pagar shithole of yours? or is it a proxy IP? so why don't you, in the spirit of Christmas go fuck yourself ...
Last edited by Anonymous on December 24th 2012, 12:23pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby BigCheez » December 24th 2012, 10:09am

The OP's resume bears a remarkable resemblance to that of mrblue...
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby fatman » December 24th 2012, 10:26am

BigCheez wrote:The OP's resume bears a remarkable resemblance to that of mrblue...


It Sure does resemble Paul, blue, mr. Blue, mb resume but I didn't read anything about building and running a company with 1000's of employees and now working the front desk at a motel6.

OP, we will leave the light on for you.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby AJC » December 24th 2012, 10:39am

OP wrote:Is Doxa made in China ? I am a 100%
certain that it conforms to the Swiss rules of Swiss made and as such is
Swiss made .. Almost certainly some parts are made in China but I would
suggest these parts are the bracelet and not much else .

The only people that are 100% sure are those that are executives at DOXA.

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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby elau » December 24th 2012, 1:03pm

ewcuk wrote:
elau wrote:Ewcuk,
You seem to paint a picture with an extremely broad brush. Your claim of Chinese business practices and Chinese mentality is your imaginations at best.

Have you work with Chinese businessmen before? Have you even been to China?

Be careful how you answer. We have members here do and can easily prove you wrong.


I own a company in Singapore I have lived in Asia for over ten years, yes I have been to China with Chinese people and one of my co directors is Chinese descendent as are a number of my Singaporean suppliers ... Oh you had better believe I speak from knowledge, let the tests begin I will be happy when time permits to supply the proof . I have lived in Thailand / Philippines / Singapore and Hong Kong in the last ten years . I sold my UK manufacturing company in 1991 and created a new one in my field in Asia 4 years ago . It is now based in Singapore ... Confirm my IP with the moderator if you like .. with regards to blanket accusations ... Do frogs croak when its raining ? Then the Chinese cut costs ALL OF THEM

Watches are my passion not my business , engineering is my qualification not my business , manufacture is my business .... and the name will remain my business so don't ask


I still call you bullshit because I PERSONALLY runs the Asia Pacific region for the software company I work for here in the U.S. and I DO know there are thousands of Westerners running multi national companies throughout China. I am Chinese and my family owns a building and electrical contracting company base out of Hong Kong which has contracts throughout China and Macau although I don't work in the family business. So I do know a thing or two doing business in China.

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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby ewcuk » December 24th 2012, 6:12pm

Horse Feathers wrote:Quick question for the OP.

Can you explain why the company behind the Doxa brand offers no documented defense of the accusations themselves ? It seem their defense is to just deny or make threats. That alone turned me off and will not consider a purchase

Find it odd that you join a forum just to defend them. I'll play along with skepticism until I see more proof.


Lets get something clear I could not give a fuck about Doxa or any other brand , but my opinion is they make them in Switzerland or at least assemble them there. I am not defending how they market them or how they make them or even where they make them .. But being a person that runs a company I get annoyed at the ignorance too many people have with regards to today's manufacturing procedures. People and buyers have not got a clue, and in most forums that becomes clear when they make accusations that have no merit.

Doxa design a good watch and they work and they have design integrity , they don't seem to cut corners ( on the ones I have ) and what you get is what you pay for .. In life that's a pretty good deal and all we should expect . They dont have to justify their watches and why should they .. I might add they are not a marketing company just a OEM manufactuer that bought a name and this shows in their marketing , so maybe they dont know how to respond .. after all they are not Tag or Rolex .. Quite often nice people dont know how to fight bad accusations .

Demanding pictures is anyone's call but what are you going to get from a picture the feel of the metal ..NO .. the feel of the crown ..NO ..the weight of the watch ... NO... the sound of the tick ..NO .. the fit and finish of the bezel ..NO .. all you get is your personal desire for clarification of fact ... and frankly I could not care less if you believe it or not . Fact is I laugh at how many people post pictures of a 100 Dollar watch and ask if its fake ... Get a life its a 100 Dollars .. A nice meal .. get real will you fake or not ITS NO MONEY

Invicta make shit you can see that at every store that sell them, and every picture that shows them , the guy that runs it is a dick and could not care less about any customer, and the product he makes is 100% Chinese made .. he could not care less about design integrity of his watches or how long they will last or the laws of Switzerland .. My guess is they are made by back street sweatshops in China from all over the place and are never sold in Switzerland ..Invicta is just a label on the front or a cheap watch, as there are no common design features that run through out the range .. Invicta deserves the rap, and I would not part with any cash or have one in my collection .. Doxa is not crap its equals Oris, Tag and some others in my collection, it has common design features inside such as the spacer ring and the way each one is made this alone means the same company make them , Invicta looks like crap, when you feel it , it feels like crap, and is clearly junk with too many people to confirm this .. Doxa has no rap for poor quality or service .. They are not the same type of product ....end of story .

I will post pictures when I have the time , but if I don't and you don't want to believe me I COULD NOT CARE LESS its your choice

Love the forum and being able to tell people what I think ... Great stuff .. Oh happy Xmas all
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby WatchDorks.Net » December 24th 2012, 6:16pm

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Proud "hater" since 2009. Get over it and have fun reassembling yer wartches.

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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby fatman » December 24th 2012, 6:46pm

Who gives a fuck? If people like them they buy them, if they don't they won't.

Now..... Image
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby TVDinner » December 24th 2012, 7:33pm

ewcuk wrote:I will post pictures when I have the time , but if I don't and you don't want to believe me I COULD NOT CARE LESS its your choice


You have posted approx 20,000 words already in your posts in this thread that unquestionably took more time then it would have to post a few legit pictures.

After reading all of this the one thing I just can not understand, even if you do finally stop filibustering and actually post some pictures is this - what is your motive here?

You say you don't "give a fuck about Doxa" and it is the "ignorance" of members here that is "annoying" you. Well are you having this same crusade on WUS and other forums where the same concerns and thoughts have been made about Doxa for years? Are you making it your mission to post the same "claims" you have made here already on EVERY other forum?
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby ewcuk » December 24th 2012, 10:33pm

eddiea wrote:
ewcuk wrote:
I own a company in Singapore I have lived in Asia for over ten years, yes I have been to China with Chinese people and one of my co directors is Chinese descendent as are a number of my Singaporean suppliers ... Oh you had better believe I speak from knowledge, let the tests begin I will be happy when time permits to supply the proof . I have lived in Thailand / Philippines / Singapore and Hong Kong in the last ten years . I sold my UK manufacturing company in 1991 and created a new one in my field in Asia 4 years ago . It is now based in Singapore ... Confirm my IP with the moderator if you like .. with regards to blanket accusations ... Do frogs croak when its raining ? Then the Chinese cut costs ALL OF THEM
Watches are my passion not my business , engineering is my qualification not my business , manufacture is my business .... and the name will remain my business so don't ask

You must be in the top ten list of lousiest trolls that ever visited here (and God knows we had a few) your level of stupidity, is just a tad above too damn high.
Guessing your holidays are a bit shitty? Singapore? you mean, that Tanjong Pagar shithole of yours? or is it a proxy IP? so why don't you, in the spirit of Christmas go fuck yourself ...


well so much for free speech .. say it as you see it and your called a troll .. whats you beef with someones opinion ? ... I read the heading and the forum guidelines and unless I am mistaken we are encouraged to speak freely or are you like timezone until someone says something you don't like ... Just for the record of this thread how many years have you lived in Asia ? Or are you one of the 85% of US citizens that has never been out side of the USA
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby ewcuk » December 24th 2012, 10:37pm

TVDinner wrote:
ewcuk wrote:I will post pictures when I have the time , but if I don't and you don't want to believe me I COULD NOT CARE LESS its your choice


You have posted approx 20,000 words already in your posts in this thread that unquestionably took more time then it would have to post a few legit pictures.

After reading all of this the one thing I just can not understand, even if you do finally stop filibustering and actually post some pictures is this - what is your motive here?

You say you don't "give a fuck about Doxa" and it is the "ignorance" of members here that is "annoying" you. Well are you having this same crusade on WUS and other forums where the same concerns and thoughts have been made about Doxa for years? Are you making it your mission to post the same "claims" you have made here already on EVERY other forum?


And you counted each and every word ..hmmm ... Who needs a motive to have and opinion ? Fact is I think Doxa is made in Switzerland ..an opinion . Like someone above said if you like something buy if not its your choice .
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby conjurer » December 24th 2012, 10:41pm

ewcuk wrote:Invicta make shit you can see that at every store that sell them, and every picture that shows them , the guy that runs it is a dick and could not care less about any customer, and the product he makes is 100% Chinese made .. he could not care less about design integrity of his watches or how long they will last or the laws of Switzerland


Jesus Christ! Stop the fucking presses!

Why the holy hell would you come here, to WatchLords, of all places, and try to prop up your shilling for Doxa with critiques of Invicta? It's like trying to extoll the engineering brilliance of BMW by breaking Ford's balls. It makes no sense.

In terms of Doxa, I owned a Divingstar 1000t for some time. The bezel turned like crap, I was sometimes worried that I'd cross the threads when I screwed down the crown, and I paid far too much for it. The best thing about owning it was that I was able to trade it for a Stowa.
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Re: Lets crack this Doxa China Thing

Postby ewcuk » December 24th 2012, 10:45pm

elau wrote:

I still call you bullshit because I PERSONALLY runs the Asia Pacific region for the software company I work for here in the U.S. and I DO know there are thousands of Westerners running multi national companies throughout China. I am Chinese and my family owns a building and electrical contracting company base out of Hong Kong which has contracts throughout China and Macau although I don't work in the family business. So I do know a thing or two doing business in China.




OK Then

Unless you are in denial you know that cutting cost is a way of life both in and out of China for Chinese people. You must also know that NO Chinese company in China can be owned by any foreign company in any greater portion than 49% .. that means every Chinese company in China is Chinese .. Hence anyone with 51% owns the company . There may be westerners on the surface bit underneath who has the final say ?
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