6205 in for service

[smellody]

Took my 6205 in for service today. My watchmaker opened the case back for me. Picture of the A260:


Caseback:


The watch wound and ran for 30+ hours, but the rotor didn't seem to be keeping the watch perpetual...

I'm also having him install a better crown where the + has not been nesrly polished off.



It's on his winder to see if it stops again. He said it was running strong albeit gaining a minute a day.

[conjurer]

it's Has gott onlee too Richard jewellls????

[smellody]

Conj. The Rolex A260 is a 19 jewel movement. Two of the 19 jewels are part of the "self winding" mechanism.

The self winding mechanism makes this watch a perpetual.

[conjurer]

Conj. The Rolex A260 is a 19 jewel movement. Two of the 19 jewels are part of the "self winding" mechanism.

The self winding mechanism makes this watch a perpetual.

O. i Feal lyke such A cock. Karry on!!

[MKTheVintageBloke]

Appears to be in good shape. The plate of the automatic winding module has substantial wear, but for whatevr reason it may be, it's a plague of these movements.

The only thing I never liked about these, is that the construction largely makes it impossible to inspect the base movement under the module. The module is easily detachable, but few sellers ever take it off for movements pics.

Then again, I suppose that the modular construction makes it somewhat less complicated, and thus easier to service - I mean, take off that module, and it's just a simple Aegler hand-wound one below it.

The 6205 is IMO one of the best-looking vintage Subs, and with the simple baton hands, certainly the cleanest design among them.

[foghorn]

Conj. The Rolex A260 is a 19 jewel movement. Two of the 19 jewels are part of the "self winding" mechanism.

The self winding mechanism makes this watch a perpetual.

O. i Feal lyke such A cock. Karry on!!

If the shew fitz ware it!!! K/j lOl

[smellody]

Appears to be in good shape. The plate of the automatic winding module has substantial wear, but for whatevr reason it may be, it's a plague of these movements.

The only thing I never liked about these, is that the construction largely makes it impossible to inspect the base movement under the module. The module is easily detachable, but few sellers ever take it off for movements pics.

Then again, I suppose that the modular construction makes it somewhat less complicated, and thus easier to service - I mean, take off that module, and it's just a simple Aegler hand-wound one below it.

The 6205 is IMO one of the best-looking vintage Subs, and with the simple baton hands, certainly the cleanest design among them.

That's some good info there! Thanks

[MKTheVintageBloke]

Appears to be in good shape. The plate of the automatic winding module has substantial wear, but for whatevr reason it may be, it's a plague of these movements.

The only thing I never liked about these, is that the construction largely makes it impossible to inspect the base movement under the module. The module is easily detachable, but few sellers ever take it off for movements pics.

Then again, I suppose that the modular construction makes it somewhat less complicated, and thus easier to service - I mean, take off that module, and it's just a simple Aegler hand-wound one below it.

The 6205 is IMO one of the best-looking vintage Subs, and with the simple baton hands, certainly the cleanest design among them.

That's some good info there! Thanks

You're welcome, Dr. Smells.

Just in case you'd like to know even more about how this works...
The Ranfft archive doesn't have an entry for the A260, but here's one for the 620, the predecessor of the A260, also modular:
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?12&ranfft&2&2uswk&Rolex_620
Figure 6 in the entry shows quite nicely, how is the module connected to the base movement.

[smellody]

Update -

The following friction spring that is part of the automatic was broken.



I need a 635/645 friction spring Rolex part 5607.

Plenty of direct fit after market available. Found a new one o a popular auction site, buy waiting to hear back from the seller.

[biglove]

Hope all goes well with the service, Smells.

[smellody]

Update. Sourced a replacement friction spring. My watchmaker installed it. After a day on the winder, my 63 year old watch ran 40 hours and 40 minutes!!!!

It ran all day again on the winder and is off to confirm that it is fixed.

At that point my new dial and crown will be installed!

[Thunder1]

Good on ya' mate...

[Wasp]

Love guts. Thanks for the share.

[biglove]

It Iives!!!

[Bahoomba]

At that point my new dial and crown will be installed!

Gonna be very cool once it's all done.

Question: You're installing a new dial? That's always a thing with Rolex owners. Personally? If I had a rusted and/or aged dial and could replace it with a new, factory Rolex dial the same as the previous, I'd do it 10 times out of 10 - yet, serious collectors pooh-pooh such a thing as it deceases the watch's "collectibility" in their eyes. Under that criteria, a 1980 Datejust that got thrown in a washing machine by accident is more worthy than a properly serviced Rolex that may have had its dial replaced - by Rolex, yet. smells, what's your take on all that?

[smellody]

At that point my new dial and crown will be installed!

Gonna be very cool once it's all done.

Question: You're installing a new dial? That's always a thing with Rolex owners. Personally? If I had a rusted and/or aged dial and could replace it with a new, factory Rolex dial the same as the previous, I'd do it 10 times out of 10 - yet, serious collectors pooh-pooh such a thing as it deceases the watch's "collectibility" in their eyes. Under that criteria, a 1980 Datejust that got thrown in a washing machine by accident is more worthy than a properly serviced Rolex that may have had its dial replaced - by Rolex, yet. smells, what's your take on all that?

Quite right and perceptive. The purists, a handful of hoarders who gathered up all the untouched pieces dozens of years ago, think only all original, "untouched," and I think preferably unused watches have merit (I think read here their personal watches and all others suck). (On a side note, these are the same folks who questioned if the case for my small arrow 1675 had been polished. I said No, they said no way... well it turned out to be never polished or "touched." I'm ok, I tripled my $ there, but there was still a little meat on the bone.)

Back to the question at hand, my 1954 6205 has a special dial. It does not say Submariner and as all dials of the era, had radium lume. The radium ate away the dial and at some point during the watch's life "Wesley" (per the engraving on the case back) had the watch serviced and the dial freshened up. When it was done, probably in the 1960's, it was refinished by an infant or an animal:



My boxer probably could have done a better job refinishing the dial.

When I bought the watch I was excited as I had an important piece of history in my hand, one of the first Submariners with the ORIGINAL pencil hands. The purists called it a Franken because the dial had been "touched."

I immediately started looking for a replacement dial that had not been touched....
1) I missed on an original 6205 dial on eBay for $5k. It was a little later, but 6205 and never refinished. However, it looked like SHIT.
2) A matte service dial surfaced, also $5k, that also was printed Submariner. It was a nice, apparently NOS dial, but for a gilt era watch, just did not have the right look. (NOT to mention is rather put $5k towards a PM Rolex.)

So the dial I purchased looks amazing to me. It is a refinished dial out of Asia. It literally cost pennies. Compared to my original dial, it looks amazing. The purists will call it Franken, wait they already have......

I honestly don't give a shit what they think. I do what I want. I have some nice watches and if they are offended by my freshening of my 64 year old watch..... I take it as their jealousy. Planks.

Eventually I'll find a proper dial, it will look like shit (eaten by radium) but I'll have it installed, sell the watch, and buy a beach home.

Until then, I'll enjoy my "Franken" 6205 Rolex. I'll wear it in the same way a guy driving a 1930's Buggati with a recast hood mascot would. Screw them, I do what I want and know what is on my wrist.

As for original dials..... if my original dial had not been refinished, I would never, ever touch it or replace it. .... I'd also probably NEVER take it out if the safe.

[MKTheVintageBloke]

The problem with service dials is that they're rarely identical to the original dial. It's not the case of "oh, but the manufacturer will replace it with an identical dial, only new." They won't, precisely because service dials are anything but identical to the original thing.

Exempli gratia: Omega Speedmaster. Here's an unmolested CK 2998-3:


And here's a "service dial" that Omega put on another 2998-3:


Pics source: speedmaster101.com

Rolex did the same thing, which is why purists tend not to value specimens with replaced dials. Just think of the 1960s Datejusts. Specimens with service dials are a plague, and I will call it a fucking plague, as that's precisely what it is. Especially that the replacement dials don't resemble the original one in any way. Lume-filled markers instead of the lume dots by the markers, period-incorrect font, the contemporary minute track with the small Roman numerals instead of the original, finely done track placed on the outer "slope" of the dial...Aaaaarghhhh.

I disagree with selling specimens with heavy dial damage - especially water-inflicted damage - for more than ones with service dials. Both the wreck and the piece with what is by all means an incorrect dial should be priced equally low.

When a watch is a redial, be it partial or total, I'm perfectly OK with sorting it out with a replacement dial - service dials, ones salvaged from donor watches, and NOS replacements alike. When someone lands up with a redial and isn't good with it, but for one reason or another is stuck with the watch, that's the very first thing I'd recommend. The result of such a swap will always look better than a repaint job. As a matter of fact, not so long ago I did just that myself, with the 14ct Tissot from 1947, where the partially repainted and badly damaged (paint falling off, risk of it getting caught in the pinions) had to be replaced - salvaged a heavily patinated (but with no mechanical damage to the coat of paint), but original one from a knackered donor watch.

Looking forward to seeing that Sub with the new dial.