Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Watches and such at Kickstarter.

Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby koimaster » July 20th 2017, 12:01pm

This watch actually looks interesting.

http://www.horage.com/horage/site/home



While crowdfunded watch brands are proliferating quicker than money can be raised, few are notable. One of the latest candidates on Kickstarter is, however, different.

The debut offering from Horage is the Multiply, a conventionally styled timepiece. But unlike typical crowdfunded watches powered by common outsourced movements, the Multiply boasts the newly developed the cal. CMK1 produced by Cendres+Metaux Microtech (CMMT).

Designed to be a versatile workhorse automatic, the CMK1 is available with various small complications, including a big date and power reserve. And it has a 65-hour power reserve, or just under three days.

http://watchesbysjx.com/2017/07/introdu ... ement.html


In recent crowdfunding campaigns, we have been confronted with products defining themselves as luxury or affordable luxury. Besides wrongly interpreted, it seems the word luxury is being abused not only by some well-established luxury brands trying to justify bizarre pricing, but also by a questionable "affordable-luxury-movement" slowly eroding the true definition or value luxurious products used to represent. Nowadays for many this term stands for a status symbol or an isolated wealthy layer of our societies and all too often as a way to show off.

The fact that a luxurious product should deliver true value for the money paid seems to be a thing of the past for some of the companies out there.

This made us think and so we decided to turn away from luxury towards premium.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/10 ... -by-horage
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby biglove » July 20th 2017, 6:54pm

I quite like it. Nice bracelet, too.

Is fully funded now. Will be anxious to see reviews in the wild and what they go for used.

Truly is a nice price and looks to be extremely well done.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby conjurer » July 20th 2017, 7:12pm

I am ambivalent.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby biglove » July 20th 2017, 7:42pm

conjurer wrote:I am ambivalent.


You all jaked up? Is this your new phrase? :)
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby conjurer » July 20th 2017, 8:02pm

biglove wrote:
conjurer wrote:I am ambivalent.


You all jaked up? Is this your new phrase? :)


Actually, sober as an Australian. I thought I'd try out a new gag.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby biglove » July 21st 2017, 4:52am

conjurer wrote:
biglove wrote:
conjurer wrote:I am ambivalent.


You all jaked up? Is this your new phrase? :)


Actually, sober as an Australian. I thought I'd try out a new gag.


Well, a three word phrase worked for Groot. ;)
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby codguy » July 21st 2017, 7:14am

A huge MEH for these wartches
.



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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby TemerityB » July 21st 2017, 10:56am

codguy wrote:A huge MEH for these wartches


Yep. I will never purchase a watch that was pimped on Kickstarter, even if it comes with a two-for-$5 Big Buford and a rimmer from Hermione Gingold.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby PiningforElgin » July 21st 2017, 8:12pm

TemerityB wrote:
codguy wrote:A huge MEH for these wartches


Yep. I will never purchase a watch that was pimped on Kickstarter, even if it comes with a two-for-$5 Big Buford and a rimmer from Hermione Gingold.


What if Abraham Louis Breguet himself sold watches on Kickstarter? You would still say no? Let's not be so judgemental and prejudicial about things

That being said, a huge meh for this particular one
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » July 21st 2017, 9:11pm

As I've said before, I don't mind brands, which started as a Kickstarter project. If someone can make good use of the funds collected, why not? If they create something of their own, make a good and prosperous business out of it, and produce great watches, I find that commendable.

But these watches... Meh. Bland as fuck.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby TemerityB » July 22nd 2017, 4:27am

PiningforElgin wrote:What if Abraham Louis Breguet himself sold watches on Kickstarter? You would still say no? Let's not be so judgemental and prejudicial about things


Uh, noted with respect:

1. Abraham Louis Brequet never stood on a street corner begging, which in the modern world is what Kickstarter is.
2. I have every right to be judgmental and prejudicial, since I have the ability to discern at 50 paces. You keep wearing the happy helmet if you so choose. You take the Horage; there's a Rolex sitting over there with my name on it. We'll see whose value holds up five years from now.
3. There's a reason established brands are established brands. Kickstarter brands all claim to be the "next big thing" and/or "a new way to sell watches" when 90 percent of them are parts bin junk with the same movements sold to the same marks using the same techniques, usually a bunch of flowery jargon about how this K brand or that K brand is new and different and changing the world and la de dah. Wow - selling to me direct and cutting out the middleman ... oh, wait, that's been Invicta's con for 15 years.
4. Kickstarter brands have no real world value, and likely never will. Waltz into a jeweler's sporting your Lew & Huey if you'd like to star in your own private comedy vignette.
5. Established brands have warranties that mean something and can usually be fixed virtually anywhere. So I'm gonna drop nine large on a "concern" that very well might not be around in two years? And who is gonna repair these "new" movements when Horage goes belly up in six months - Abraham Louis Brequet?

Again: You wanna gamble your dough on unproven companies? You're a braver soul than I. I see nothing wrong with dismissing something out of hand, especially since these new brands are the answer to a question I didn't ask in the first place. Kickstarter, Pokemon Go, Beanie Babies, Cabbage Patch dolls, smart watches: Just become something's a trend doesn't mean I have to give a flying fuck about it.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby biglove » July 22nd 2017, 4:54am

TemerityB wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:What if Abraham Louis Breguet himself sold watches on Kickstarter? You would still say no? Let's not be so judgemental and prejudicial about things


Uh, noted with respect:

1. Abraham Louis Brequet never stood on a street corner begging, which in the modern world is what Kickstarter is.
2. I have every right to be judgmental and prejudicial, since I have the ability to discern at 50 paces. You keep wearing the happy helmet if you so choose. You take the Horage; there's a Rolex sitting over there with my name on it. We'll see whose value holds up five years from now.
3. There's a reason established brands are established brands. Kickstarter brands all claim to be the "next big thing" and/or "a new way to sell watches" when 90 percent of them are parts bin junk with the same movements sold to the same marks using the same techniques, usually a bunch of flowery jargon about how this K brand or that K brand is new and different and changing the world and la de dah. Wow - selling to me direct and cutting out the middleman ... oh, wait, that's been Invicta's con for 15 years.
4. Kickstarter brands have no real world value, and likely never will. Waltz into a jeweler's sporting your Lew & Huey if you'd like to star in your own private comedy vignette.
5. Established brands have warranties that mean something and can usually be fixed virtually anywhere. So I'm gonna drop nine large on a "concern" that very well might not be around in two years? And who is gonna repair these "new" movements when Horage goes belly up in six months - Abraham Louis Brequet?

Again: You wanna gamble your dough on unproven companies? You're a braver soul than I. I see nothing wrong with dismissing something out of hand, especially since these new brands are the answer to a question I didn't ask in the first place. Kickstarter, Pokemon Go, Beanie Babies, Cabbage Patch dolls, smart watches: Just become something's a trend doesn't mean I have to give a flying fuck about it.


Well said, TB!
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby AJC » July 22nd 2017, 5:38am

Not gonna spend a dime on a gamble like a Kickstarter watch. However this isn't the worst watch ever.

Cool movement but still ugly. I'd choose the three hand if forced to.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » July 22nd 2017, 7:06am

TemerityB wrote:5. Established brands have warranties that mean something and can usually be fixed virtually anywhere. So I'm gonna drop nine large on a "concern" that very well might not be around in two years? And who is gonna repair these "new" movements when Horage goes belly up in six months - Abraham Louis Brequet?

It appears that the movement is made for Horage rather than by Horage, so as long as the manufacturer of the movement exists, Horage could well go belly up, and parts will likely be available. Then again, not forever will they be available, but even the parts for a lot of generic movements from the past are often obsolete nowadays.

However, I certainly agree with the point about servicing and parts availability of in-house movements from "startup" (Kickstarter or no Kickstarter) brands. If everything is done in-house, then whatever stash of parts will be left by the brand upon bankruptcy, that stash will dry up sooner or later. If such a brand uses generic movements, I'm OK with it- after all, a lot of manufactures with quite a history started with generic movements; if you look at, say, 19th century Ulysse Nardin or even Tissot, you'll see mostly modified and custom-decorated Lepine-layout ebauches by FHF or Japy Freres.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby AJC » July 22nd 2017, 7:35am

I like the Autark better. This one has a rhodium dial, a thin 39mm sandwich-style case and lugs, and the same K1 movement as the watch on Kickstarter.

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Not bad.

No made up history and they claim to directly contribute some of the funds to an education or environmental based charity.

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Last edited by AJC on July 22nd 2017, 11:24am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby eddiea » July 22nd 2017, 7:54am

The cal. CMK1, made "in house" by Cendres+Metaux (an outfit that makes dental parts as well) and sourced their silicon escape wheel and pallet fork from Hahn-Schickard, "a German precision engineering outfit that typically deals with electronics and medical equipment." ...You got to love it :D
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby conjurer » July 22nd 2017, 8:37am

TemerityB wrote:1. Abraham Louis Brequet never stood on a street corner begging, which in the modern world is what Kickstarter is.


A fine rant, T, and I agree with everything about it except for point 1. Some documents were recently discovered and posted on Wikipedia about a meeting between Abraham Louis Breuet and King Louis XV of France:

ALB: Your Highness, I am pleased to introduce the newest model of the Breguet line, the Subaqua Bolt Zeus Minute Repeater! If your Highness is pleased to do so, with Royal investment, we can start serial production an make the Kingdom of France the horological capital of the world!

Louis EX-VEE: We are ambivalent.

ALB: What?! Look at all the cables! And the skull wearing the tophat on the dial!!

L EX-VEE: It looks like something they threw together in the steppes of Asia.

ALB: But-but... It has a Flambe-Fusion crystal! And the escapement was based on the Snark & Co. movement!!

L EX-VEE: We are bored. We temendously need to pinch a loaf over here.

ALB: Your Highness, I'll suck your dick if it makes it all right!!

L EX-VEE: Very well. Major Domo, fetch us our purse!
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby foghorn » July 22nd 2017, 9:40am

"How do you like your horage?"


"Oh anywhere between 30 and 40. Experience counts."
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby Falstaff » July 22nd 2017, 10:53am

PiningforElgin wrote:
TemerityB wrote:
codguy wrote:A huge MEH for these wartches


Yep. I will never purchase a watch that was pimped on Kickstarter, even if it comes with a two-for-$5 Big Buford and a rimmer from Hermione Gingold.


What if Abraham Louis Breguet himself sold watches on Kickstarter? You would still say no? Let's not be so judgemental and prejudicial about things

That being said, a huge meh for this particular one



You seem to think we're obligated to be fair and non-judgmental - we're not. I positively revel in being a truculent bigot.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby 3Flushes » July 22nd 2017, 10:54am

biglove wrote:
TemerityB wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:What if Abraham Louis Breguet himself sold watches on Kickstarter? You would still say no? Let's not be so judgemental and prejudicial about things


Uh, noted with respect:

1. Abraham Louis Brequet never stood on a street corner begging, which in the modern world is what Kickstarter is.
2. I have every right to be judgmental and prejudicial, since I have the ability to discern at 50 paces. You keep wearing the happy helmet if you so choose. You take the Horage; there's a Rolex sitting over there with my name on it. We'll see whose value holds up five years from now.
3. There's a reason established brands are established brands. Kickstarter brands all claim to be the "next big thing" and/or "a new way to sell watches" when 90 percent of them are parts bin junk with the same movements sold to the same marks using the same techniques, usually a bunch of flowery jargon about how this K brand or that K brand is new and different and changing the world and la de dah. Wow - selling to me direct and cutting out the middleman ... oh, wait, that's been Invicta's con for 15 years.
4. Kickstarter brands have no real world value, and likely never will. Waltz into a jeweler's sporting your Lew & Huey if you'd like to star in your own private comedy vignette.
5. Established brands have warranties that mean something and can usually be fixed virtually anywhere. So I'm gonna drop nine large on a "concern" that very well might not be around in two years? And who is gonna repair these "new" movements when Horage goes belly up in six months - Abraham Louis Brequet?

Again: You wanna gamble your dough on unproven companies? You're a braver soul than I. I see nothing wrong with dismissing something out of hand, especially since these new brands are the answer to a question I didn't ask in the first place. Kickstarter, Pokemon Go, Beanie Babies, Cabbage Patch dolls, smart watches: Just become something's a trend doesn't mean I have to give a flying fuck about it.


Well said, TB!

Yep, agree 100%

MKTheVintageBloke wrote:...It appears that the movement is made for Horage rather than by Horage, so as long as the manufacturer of the movement exists, Horage could well go belly up, and parts will likely be available. Then again, not forever will they be available, but even the parts for a lot of generic movements from the past are often obsolete nowadays...

While these "brands" may get a kickstart, the majority of those motor's konk-out quick and buyers get left holding the bag. Even if parts can be sourced down the road, there's no real track record to show that these watches survive the warranty period. So again, even with parts available, what's the point of having to pay to fix a watch under warranty that should be fixed or replaced for free, or have a watch with no value repaired should it survive the warranty? With the rates for qualified watchmakers going through the roof, in either instance, I'm not willing to take the gamble on this stuff, either.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby AJC » July 24th 2017, 3:40am

eddiea wrote:The cal. CMK1, made "in house" by Cendres+Metaux (an outfit that makes dental parts as well) and sourced their silicon escape wheel and pallet fork from Hahn-Schickard, "a German precision engineering outfit that typically deals with electronics and medical equipment." ...You got to love it :D


I'd be more worried about part sourcing and repairs in the future than what else they produce..

Seiko/Orient also makes copiers and such, Swatch/ETA designed an ugly ass, European car. Then again, they made watch movements before-hand, so I don't know what I'm talking about.


That one Aurak model is my favorite microbrand watch since my PRS-82 replica. I guess out of every 1,000 or so micro wartches one catches my eye.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby PiningforElgin » August 7th 2017, 1:50pm

TemerityB wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:What if Abraham Louis Breguet himself sold watches on Kickstarter? You would still say no? Let's not be so judgemental and prejudicial about things


Uh, noted with respect:

1. Abraham Louis Brequet never stood on a street corner begging, which in the modern world is what Kickstarter is.
2. I have every right to be judgmental and prejudicial, since I have the ability to discern at 50 paces. You keep wearing the happy helmet if you so choose. You take the Horage; there's a Rolex sitting over there with my name on it. We'll see whose value holds up five years from now.
3. There's a reason established brands are established brands. Kickstarter brands all claim to be the "next big thing" and/or "a new way to sell watches" when 90 percent of them are parts bin junk with the same movements sold to the same marks using the same techniques, usually a bunch of flowery jargon about how this K brand or that K brand is new and different and changing the world and la de dah. Wow - selling to me direct and cutting out the middleman ... oh, wait, that's been Invicta's con for 15 years.
4. Kickstarter brands have no real world value, and likely never will. Waltz into a jeweler's sporting your Lew & Huey if you'd like to star in your own private comedy vignette.
5. Established brands have warranties that mean something and can usually be fixed virtually anywhere. So I'm gonna drop nine large on a "concern" that very well might not be around in two years? And who is gonna repair these "new" movements when Horage goes belly up in six months - Abraham Louis Brequet?

Again: You wanna gamble your dough on unproven companies? You're a braver soul than I. I see nothing wrong with dismissing something out of hand, especially since these new brands are the answer to a question I didn't ask in the first place. Kickstarter, Pokemon Go, Beanie Babies, Cabbage Patch dolls, smart watches: Just become something's a trend doesn't mean I have to give a flying fuck about it.


I concur with you on many points. Was just trying to use a little levity, don't need to take it too seriously
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby TemerityB » August 7th 2017, 3:06pm

PiningforElgin wrote:
TemerityB wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:What if Abraham Louis Breguet himself sold watches on Kickstarter? You would still say no? Let's not be so judgemental and prejudicial about things


Uh, noted with respect:

1. Abraham Louis Brequet never stood on a street corner begging, which in the modern world is what Kickstarter is.
2. I have every right to be judgmental and prejudicial, since I have the ability to discern at 50 paces. You keep wearing the happy helmet if you so choose. You take the Horage; there's a Rolex sitting over there with my name on it. We'll see whose value holds up five years from now.
3. There's a reason established brands are established brands. Kickstarter brands all claim to be the "next big thing" and/or "a new way to sell watches" when 90 percent of them are parts bin junk with the same movements sold to the same marks using the same techniques, usually a bunch of flowery jargon about how this K brand or that K brand is new and different and changing the world and la de dah. Wow - selling to me direct and cutting out the middleman ... oh, wait, that's been Invicta's con for 15 years.
4. Kickstarter brands have no real world value, and likely never will. Waltz into a jeweler's sporting your Lew & Huey if you'd like to star in your own private comedy vignette.
5. Established brands have warranties that mean something and can usually be fixed virtually anywhere. So I'm gonna drop nine large on a "concern" that very well might not be around in two years? And who is gonna repair these "new" movements when Horage goes belly up in six months - Abraham Louis Brequet?

Again: You wanna gamble your dough on unproven companies? You're a braver soul than I. I see nothing wrong with dismissing something out of hand, especially since these new brands are the answer to a question I didn't ask in the first place. Kickstarter, Pokemon Go, Beanie Babies, Cabbage Patch dolls, smart watches: Just become something's a trend doesn't mean I have to give a flying fuck about it.


I concur with you on many points. Was just trying to use a little levity, don't need to take it too seriously


Hey, it's all good. Many love Kickstarter; I practically think it's one of the most colossal wastes of time in commerce, the electronic perpetuation of the Ron Popeil spiel. Each to their own.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby PiningforElgin » August 7th 2017, 3:32pm

TemerityB wrote:
Hey, it's all good. Many love Kickstarter; I practically think it's one of the most colossal wastes of time in commerce, the electronic perpetuation of the Ron Popeil spiel. Each to their own.


I think Kickstarter is probably only good for charitable causes/indie movies, not really for for-profit manufacturing business (like watches). Never bought one yet. To be perfectly honest, I thought about scoring a Miyota high-beat 9015 (or a less-common-than-2824 ETA) for cheap on KS - but never found anything good so far.
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Re: Next Level Swiss watch making - Horage

Postby apollowatches » September 11th 2017, 7:01pm

I really like the Caseback... they decided to go for some circular "beam-like" structure to draw the eye towards Multiply´s heart, the K1 movement. I
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